Add oxygen to CPAP on my own?

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
CardiacProtest
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:23 pm

Add oxygen to CPAP on my own?

Post by CardiacProtest » Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:45 am

I had severe apnea, 80 events an hour. Treated with AutoBipap for a few years.

About a year ago, I started sleeping 10+ hours and feeling terrible when I wake up... generally not until 11AM if I can get away with it. We've upped the pressure, adjusted pillows and now I'm supposed to train myself to breathe differently, which seems ridiculous to me. Nothing has helped, yet My doctor is against adding oxygen to the bipap.

I've read studies where oxygen was somewhat effective for apnea, albeit less effective than CPAP/bipap.

So, for $200 I can get a used respironics oxygen concentrator. I'm going to do an experiment... I'll start low, and if the oxygen makes a big difference well great! If not, I'll sell it for $200.

Am I crazy? Anyone done this?

User avatar
kaiasgram
Posts: 3568
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:08 pm
Location: Northern California

Re: Add oxygen to CPAP on my own?

Post by kaiasgram » Thu Jun 25, 2015 1:11 am

Is there evidence that your O2 is dropping when you sleep?

_________________
Machine: AirSense 10 AutoSet with Heated Humidifer + Aifit N30i Nasal Mask Bundle
Mask: Aloha Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: SleepyHead-now-OSCAR software on Mac OSX Ventura

User avatar
kteague
Posts: 7768
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 8:30 pm
Location: West and Midwest

Re: Add oxygen to CPAP on my own?

Post by kteague » Thu Jun 25, 2015 1:14 am

Have steps already been taken to determine if you even need added oxygen? If your sleep apnea treatment is suboptimal, resolving that would be a preferred solution. Is your doctor making decisions in consideration of your machine's data? Do you own a recording oximeter to see what your levels are during sleep? If not, maybe your doctor could order one for you to use at home a night or two. I personally would not add oxygen unless I knew I needed it. If you do have low oxygen at night, if I were you I'd want to know why and get to the root of the problem. Maybe you could post your data here and get some more targeted input.

_________________
Mask: TAP PAP Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Improved Stability Mouthpiece
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments: Bleep/DreamPort for full nights, Tap Pap for shorter sessions

User avatar
Julie
Posts: 19898
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:58 pm

Re: Add oxygen to CPAP on my own?

Post by Julie » Thu Jun 25, 2015 4:19 am

First of all, you shouldn't be training yourself to breathe differently and whoever suggested it is not familiar with Cpap! The machine adjusts to your breathing pattern and makes changes, not the other way around.

Secondly, where is your doctor in all of this? 02 is not something you arbitrarily throw on because it seems like a good idea. You need more info and evidence of need, at what level, etc. before you decide it's the answer to anything. I understand your frustration, but find a better sleep doctor etc., because you could end up in the fire from the frying pan.

JDS74
Posts: 3397
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:57 pm
Location: South Carolina

Re: Add oxygen to CPAP on my own?

Post by JDS74 » Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:37 am

If you go this route without some oxygen data and in spite of your doctors advice, then it is likely that any level of trust between you and your doctor will have been damaged. Doctors who don't like or don't trust their patients give sub optimal treatment or advice. The motivation to go the extra distance is missing and you get just so-so care.

So closely think about whether or not you intend to change doctors over this decision.

If you don't have a pulse oximeter that can record, get one and get some data. If the data shows low SpO2 values, even if not below 90%, then there might be a case to do what you suggest. You need to be in partnership with your medical team otherwise, unless you stay at the Holiday Inn Express often, you'll be making medical decisions without the training that doctors bring.

_________________
Mask: Oracle HC452 Oral CPAP Mask
Humidifier: DreamStation Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: EverFlo Q 3.0 Liters O2 PR DSX900 ASV
Oracle 452 Lessons Learned Updated
DSX900 AutoSV with HC150 extra humidifier and Hibernite heated hose
Settings: EPAP Min-10.0, EPAP Max-17, PS Min-3, PS Max-10, Max Pressure-20, Rate-Auto, Biflex-1.
Sleepyhead and Encore Pro 2.21.

User avatar
palerider
Posts: 32300
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:43 pm
Location: Dallas(ish).

Re: Add oxygen to CPAP on my own?

Post by palerider » Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:24 am

CardiacProtest wrote:I had severe apnea, 80 events an hour. Treated with AutoBipap for a few years.

About a year ago, I started sleeping 10+ hours and feeling terrible when I wake up... generally not until 11AM if I can get away with it. We've upped the pressure, adjusted pillows and now I'm supposed to train myself to breathe differently, which seems ridiculous to me. Nothing has helped, yet My doctor is against adding oxygen to the bipap.

I've read studies where oxygen was somewhat effective for apnea, albeit less effective than CPAP/bipap.

So, for $200 I can get a used respironics oxygen concentrator. I'm going to do an experiment... I'll start low, and if the oxygen makes a big difference well great! If not, I'll sell it for $200.

Am I crazy? Anyone done this?
I'd get a recording oximeter and see if my spo2 levels were low. you can get one for under 100$ from aliexpress.com (cms50f or I, wrist mounted, comfortable, works with sleepyhead)

also, if you do get a used concentrator, get one that has the built in oxygen quality monitor, otherwise, yours could be blowing plain air, and you'd never know.

_________________
Mask: Bleep DreamPort CPAP Mask Solution
Additional Comments: S9 VPAP Auto
Get OSCAR

Accounts to put on the foe list: dataq1, clownbell, gearchange, lynninnj, mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They often post misleading, timewasting stuff.

User avatar
chunkyfrog
Posts: 34377
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:10 pm
Location: Nebraska--I am sworn to keep the secret of this paradise.

Re: Add oxygen to CPAP on my own?

Post by chunkyfrog » Thu Jun 25, 2015 4:20 pm

What is wrong with seeing your DOCTOR?

_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 For Her Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Airsense 10 Autoset for Her

CardiacProtest
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:23 pm

Re: Add oxygen to CPAP on my own?

Post by CardiacProtest » Thu Jun 25, 2015 4:36 pm

So, I saw my doctor. He wants me to try things I've already tried now for months... neck pillow, change my breathing (wtf?), etc. Its not enough. I need to have energy NOW. I'm sick to death of being tired when I wake up. I'm missing out on life. The doctor wants me to have nasal surgery, then if that doesn't work, adjust my jaw, then if that doesn't work, throat surgery, on and on. He'd rather me do all that than try oxygen.

Basically... I still have a lot of apnea from leaks, heart problems too. As to data, I have a pulse oximeter and I have a halter monitor on the way. In my sleep study, my ox went down to 90 and not lower at the current pressure. My problem is with leaks. I leak out my mouth, so I still have plenty of apneas/hypopneas most nights. I tried a full face mask, but I aspirate once or twice a week, and I just couldn't make it work. Also, I have trouble with higher pressures going into my belly, although a pillow does help. My pulse ox has an alarm set at 90, and it hasn't gone off two nights I've set it that way. To mix this in, I have arrythmias... and they tend to happen shortly before sleep (thus the halter monitor). Recently during arrhythmias, my O2 hit 90 or less. So it does happen sometimes.

I know O2 does help apnea (albeit less than bipap), so I want to add it into the mix. Just to see. I need improvement, fast. I need more energy. If I get GREAT sleep with it, I'll own up to my doctor that I borrowed a unit and tried it. Its worth a $200 experiment, and I can resell the unit for $200 anyway so its not costing me anything.

I know I'm kind of ignoring your advice, but it is helpful, thanks

User avatar
Julie
Posts: 19898
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:58 pm

Re: Add oxygen to CPAP on my own?

Post by Julie » Thu Jun 25, 2015 4:45 pm

Which FF masks have you given a fighting chance to?

You're complaining about leaks, but haven't exactly mentioned what you've done to fix them...

User avatar
Krelvin
Posts: 1977
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 5:23 pm
Location: Metro Phx Area - Dry Heat!

Re: Add oxygen to CPAP on my own?

Post by Krelvin » Thu Jun 25, 2015 4:48 pm

CardiacProtest wrote:Am I crazy?
Reckless is more like it. You don't know what your O2 is? Unlike adjusting pressures on your CPAP which is just air, you are talking about changing your O2 content. Not smart.
Current Settings PS 4.0 over 10.6-18.0 (cmH2O) - Resmed S9 VPAP Auto w/h5i Humidifier - Quattro Air FFM
TNET Sleep Resource Pages - CPAP Machine Database
Put your equip in your Signature - SleepyHead v1.0.0-beta-1
Kevin... alias Krelvin

CardiacProtest
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:23 pm

Re: Add oxygen to CPAP on my own?

Post by CardiacProtest » Thu Jun 25, 2015 4:56 pm

I know what my O2 is. It drops when I have apneas from leakage, but not below 90.

User avatar
chunkyfrog
Posts: 34377
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:10 pm
Location: Nebraska--I am sworn to keep the secret of this paradise.

Re: Add oxygen to CPAP on my own?

Post by chunkyfrog » Thu Jun 25, 2015 4:57 pm

It is your choice. Makes me nervous, though.

_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 For Her Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Airsense 10 Autoset for Her

User avatar
bwexler
Posts: 1507
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:52 pm
Location: San Marcos, Ca. USA

Re: Add oxygen to CPAP on my own?

Post by bwexler » Thu Jun 25, 2015 4:58 pm

It sounds like your oximiter does not record any data.
You absolutely need to get a Recording pulse oximeter and record at least a weeks worth of data. If that data shows low SPO2 then buy a concentrator and continue monitoring your SPO2 to adjust to the proper flow of oxygen.
You should also be monitoring your PAP therapy to be sure there are no problems there that must be addressed.
If your doc won't cooperate after you show him the reports from the pulse oximetry and the PAP then you might need a new doc.
You may also want to try a chin strap or a cervical cooler to help keep your mouth shut.

The Holter monitor has nothing to do with your PAP therapy, but it sounds like you have a veriety of medical problems and you may also be taking a variety of medications which may have side affects like making you tired.

There is an old story about how you eat an elephant, one bite at a time. Good luck,

_________________
Mask: SleepWeaver 3D Soft Cloth Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: AurCurve 10 ASV Also using Sleaplyhead 1.1, ResScan 6 and CMS50i

tedburnsIII
Posts: 354
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2015 4:49 pm
Location: San Diego

Re: Add oxygen to CPAP on my own?

Post by tedburnsIII » Thu Jun 25, 2015 5:05 pm

CardiacProtest wrote:I know what my O2 is. It drops when I have apneas from leakage, but not below 90.
So, what's the issue, then? If your minimum 02 is not less than 90% while on CPAP then problem may lie elsewhere...

According to the Clinical Guidelines, the goal is to have the minimum Sp02 90% or greater: http://www.aastweb.org/Resources/Guidel ... ummary.pdf

Curious also as to what your Basal Sp02's are....and what are your usual AHI's?

If you feel lousy, perhaps an increase in pressure might present itself. Sorry that you feel so bad, it must be very frustrating.

Another thought: work on your sleep hygiene. Moreover, you may be sleeping TOO LONG at 10/10+ hours each night. And maybe C02 washout or C02 whatever is an issue.

In any event, I feel lousy if sleep too long-so do others, CPAP or not. Sleep 2-3 hours a night LESS, see how that goes..if after doing that your AHI's are <5, or less (preferably <1), your sats are okay- and you STILL feel lousy, then something else needs to be looked at...JMO but you may simply be sleeping too long.
Last edited by tedburnsIII on Fri Jun 26, 2015 3:01 pm, edited 12 times in total.
Machine - https://www.cpap.com/productpage/resmart ... ducts.html
Setting: APAP, 10.5-14cm
Software: Proprietary
Mask- PR Wisp nasal (large); ResMed FX Nasal (wide);
Oximeter: CMS50D+

CardiacProtest
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:23 pm

Re: Add oxygen to CPAP on my own?

Post by CardiacProtest » Thu Jun 25, 2015 5:11 pm

I've got a recording oximeter, I'll check the data tomorrow.