New Philips Respironics' Amara View Full Face CPAP Mask

[BleepingBeauty]

Aren't we all supposed to fit a mask so that it does the job while we're asleep?

Of course.

IMO, if the mouth should be slightly open when fitting, it stands to reason that it should also be slightly open while sleeping.

No it does not stand to reason. Many of us fall asleep with our mouths closed. Sometime after falling asleep our mouths may open. (With me, it seems to be when I hit REM but there is no conclusive evidence of that.)

So the manufacturers of the mask, knowing that it was designed for people who open their mouth while sleeping, want people to open their mouth while fitting. This of course means the mask will be fitted and adjusted properly when the patient's mouth opens during sleep.

Why do you think the manufacturer would advise the patient to mouth breathe while using this mask?

Boy, that was a big leap. (Hope you didn't hurt yourself.)

Nobody said anything about mouth-breathing. The booklet says to keep your mouth slightly open when using the mask. There is a difference.

I stated my opinion re: interpreting the instructions, and you interpret them differently. If you want to continue to argue the point, take it up with Respironics.

[BleepingBeauty]

Second night's review:

I went to sleep with the mouthguard in place (which is comprised of two separate pieces, not one) and my lips parted. When I had to get up in the middle of the night to take pain reliever for my stiff neck, my mouth was very dry. I don't believe I'd been mouth-breathing, so I think the parted lips were enough to let the air in and dry me out. (Maybe a one-piece mouthguard would work better, but I don't have one to try.) When I went back to bed, I applied lip balm and opted to try taping over my parted lips (with the trimmed tape), but the piece of tape wasn't quite wide enough (top to bottom) to account for the lip balm's added moisture, so I took that piece off and then applied the full 2" width (again with my lips parted). That held well and didn't break the seal at all, and I didn't wake with a dry mouth this morning.

Here's the data (short night again due to neck pain, but lower pressure needs again and lower leak). The little blip in the middle is when I tried to use the trimmed tape and realized it wouldn't hold. The first blank in the pressure graph was when I got up to take the pain med; then the little bit of usage was with the trimmed tape. (The pain hadn't yet resolved, but I wanted to go back to sleep, so I tried but was not successful.) I then opted to get out of bed again and wait for pain relief (that's the big gap). Then I applied the 2" wide tape and went back to bed for awhile. (I've always had difficulty sleeping when the sun is up, and this morning was no different. I was awake with the birds, as usual.) I may need a nap today; if so, I'll have to use a sleep mask.



Just an aside: My machine's timing is off. I went to bed around 10:30, but the data indicates an hour later. We don't do DST here in AZ, and the machine is obviously not taking that into account. I haven't figured out how to amend that; there's nothing in the machine manual about it. If anyone knows how, please advise.

Oh, one more thing I noticed: I use a hose hanger. With my Hybrid, I have to make sure that the short hose moves away from the elbow attachment on the mask in a lateral direction (either left or right) before it then moves up to attach to the 6' hose overhead. If the short hose is in front of the mask, the exhaust hits it directly and makes a lot of noise. But because the Amara's exhaust is vented upwards, it doesn't hit the short hose at all; no noise when the hose is directly in front of the mask. Another bonus, in my book.

No redness or soreness this morning, either. Still leaning towards a "yay" for this mask.

[Pugsy]

My machine's timing is off. I went to bed around 10:30, but the data indicates an hour later. We don't do DST here in AZ, and the machine is obviously not taking that into account. I haven't figured out how to amend that; there's nothing in the machine manual about it. If anyone knows how, please advise.

You have to adjust it in the time zone setting area. Pretend you are in the time zone the machine thinks it is and not necessarily the one you are in.
I just lived with the one hour thing...it was correct for half the year.
When you change the time zone so it actually matches now then the older reports will be off but since most of the time we are looking at recent reports I guess it doesn't matter.

[BleepingBeauty]

My machine's timing is off. I went to bed around 10:30, but the data indicates an hour later. We don't do DST here in AZ, and the machine is obviously not taking that into account. I haven't figured out how to amend that; there's nothing in the machine manual about it. If anyone knows how, please advise.

You have to adjust it in the time zone setting area. Pretend you are in the time zone the machine thinks it is and not necessarily the one you are in.
I just lived with the one hour thing...it was correct for half the year.
When you change the time zone so it actually matches now then the older reports will be off but since most of the time we are looking at recent reports I guess it doesn't matter.

Thanks, Pugsy. That "time zone setting area" has thus far eluded me. It's not a problem, really; just weird to see that the machine is now an hour off. I don't look at my data that closely anymore (which is a good thing) but am doing so lately because of this mask. But if it means having to change the time setting on the machine as people do their clocks twice a year, I'll just live with it as-is.

I like that AZ doesn't change the clocks and wish the whole country would follow suit. (I wish a lot of things that just never happen... )

[Pugsy]

I'll just live with it as-is.

That's what I did because it doesn't really matter....7 or 8 hours of sleep is the same no matter what the time says. Only problem is when we are trying to compare maybe a section in SleepyHead with a section in Encore and we have to allow for the difference to capture the same time frame. Fortunately needing to compare something at that level is rare anyway.

[palerider]

Just an aside: My machine's timing is off. I went to bed around 10:30, but the data indicates an hour later. We don't do DST here in AZ, and the machine is obviously not taking that into account. I haven't figured out how to amend that; there's nothing in the machine manual about it. If anyone knows how, please advise.

the respironics machines have a clock that's set at the factory, to GMT, and cannot be changed without service tools and programs.

encore and sleepyhead apply corrections to the GMT from the device, to show it in local time, SH also offers an offset to allow for correcting for clock drift over time, I don't know if encore does too.

point being, look in encore for time corrections.

[ChicagoGranny]

Nobody said anything about mouth-breathing. The booklet says to keep your mouth slightly open when using the mask. There is a difference.

You may not like it to be called mouth breathing, but if your lips are parted, air is passing through your mouth when you breathe. You report dry mouth which is evidence of this.

Wikipedia distinguishes between breathing through the nose, the mouth or both. Take your pick.

[Pugsy]

point being, look in encore for time corrections.

On paper it is supposed to work and Encore Pro even has a DST box to check...In real life it doesn't work well.
Believe me..I have tried using the correct time zone and DST and not DST and Encore simply doesn't handle DST well and the only way is to make an "off" time zone selection but then it will mess up the other times when it was correct. Now I haven't tried the latest Encore Pro version to see if they fixed that bug but it's not worth the hassle...just easier to make a mental note of "1 hour off for part of the year".
Since BB lives in Arizona I don't know why hers is off but I do know that I have messed with Encore time settings in the past trying to fix it but it simply wouldn't work out no matter what I did.
Unless her Encore is trying to do the DST thing because it is supposed to but again messes up since she is in an area where DST isn't observed but Encore doesn't know that.

[PoolQ]

No intention of starting an argument here. Period. I used to write manuals for a living, not for CPAP, but for electronics.
This I have learned
1. no matter what you write some will always think it means something else
2. context means everything-this is a product for people that mouth breath at least some of the time, so adjusting the mask with the mouth open is important
3. context does not always mean everything-if adjusting the mask is important for mouth breathers, say how to do it in more than one place, often. see #4 below
4. always assume people will totally skip sections-some will read adjusting and others wont. some will read using and others wont. some will not even open the manual.

for #2 above, is there anything about the design of the mask that would require an average user to always have the mouth open? I can't think of anything.
If you disagree with my reading, then I admit here and now that you are correct and I am wrong.

I actually delivered a new product to a customer, he opened the box, picked up the instruction manual, looked directly at me and tossed it in the trash. Go figure, this was new equipment that no one had seen before. My purpose for being there was to see if a customer could follow what I had written, not that he knew that.

[ChicagoGranny]

No intention of starting an argument here.

Yes you are.

[BleepingBeauty]

Nobody said anything about mouth-breathing. The booklet says to keep your mouth slightly open when using the mask. There is a difference.

You may not like it to be called mouth breathing, but if your lips are parted, air is passing through your mouth when you breathe. You report dry mouth which is evidence of this.

Wikipedia distinguishes between breathing through the nose, the mouth or both. Take your pick.

This will be my last post on this subject; I'm not interested in argument for argument's sake.

I can easily open my mouth and NOT breathe through it; if I do that inside a FFM, of course my mouth will get dry. (Don't go into criminal justice, CG; as much as you want it to be, dry mouth is NOT evidence of mouth-breathing. It's assumption on your part. And you know what they say about that...)

Citing Wikipedia as a credible source on any subject is pretty laughable. Instead, please read Tip #8 in this article from the Mayo Clinic, particularly words 9-14 in the first sentence: http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-cond ... t-20044164

Now, are we there yet? (That's rhetorical and requires no answer. I'm done with this discussion.)

[ChicagoGranny]

please read Tip #8 in this article from the Mayo Clinic

There is nothing in there that says no air passes between open lips during the process of breathing.

Citing Wikipedia as a credible source on any subject is pretty laughable.

That is an archaic comment. Who told you that? Your tenth grade history teacher?

Now, are we there yet? (That's rhetorical and requires no answer. I'm done with this discussion.)

Come back when you have a good source that says no air passes through open lips. I would like to know where that magic seal between the mouth and the larynx is located.

[hegel]

For me, as an owner of this mask (although I haven't put it through its paces yet the way Bleeping Beauty has) the important thing is that it's working for her and so far gets a thumbs up. I gave it a thumbs up too based on one night, especially in comparison to other full face masks that I've worn and found intolerable. (I'm a stomach sleeper who happily uses swift nasal pillows.)

In a way, how the phrase 'with mouth open' is interpreted is a moot point. Just as I may fall asleep with my mouth closed and have it open while asleep, so too I might fall asleep with my mouth open and close it while sleeping, all unbeknownst. I have no control either way. I'm probably going to sleep the way I sleep no matter what, mouth-wise. So as long as the mask is fitted for an open mouth, everything else will take care of itself.

asterisk: Unless I wear a chin strap (and even then...) or manage to train myself over years.

[ChicagoGranny]

Just as I may fall asleep with my mouth closed and have it open while asleep, so too I might fall asleep with my mouth open and close it while sleeping, all unbeknownst. I have no control either way.

That's what I have been trying to tell several on this forum. They claim to have "trained" their mouth to stay closed while sleeping.

But I guess it will soon be proven in court that you can break out an aircraft window with a remote while sleeping - viewtopic.php?f=1&t=106872

[palerider]

Nobody said anything about mouth-breathing. The booklet says to keep your mouth slightly open when using the mask. There is a difference.

You may not like it to be called mouth breathing, but if your lips are parted, air is passing through your mouth when you breathe.

I can easily open my mouth and NOT breathe through it; if I do that inside a FFM, of course my mouth will get dry.

agreed, same here. I can put on the p10, crank the machine up to treatment pressure (it tops out around 22 sometimes on ipap), open my mouth, stick out my tongue, and no air comes out my mouth while I'm breathing in and out through my nose.

the mechanism is the same one that allows you to blow up a balloon, except in reverse, where you're blocking off your nasal cavity from the back of your mouth, and thus forcing all the air to go out into the balloon... the reverse can be done, by many people, where the air goes in and out through the nose, and doesn't go into the mouth at all.

heck, I'm so talented, I can even drool in my sleep without having any appreciable leaks