Negative home tests, a dud?

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
tiredandscared
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Re: Negative home tests, a dud?

Post by tiredandscared » Wed May 27, 2015 2:19 pm

Sheffey wrote:
tiredandscared wrote:Didn't notice many apneas.
I don't think you can identify with any certainty an apnea or lack of an apnea by viewing a video.
I do think you can to some extent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCh7JehFX90
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjQdAf9cQBo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1QyJu9Zt4s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgC_S09Xea4

if you completely stop breathing, gasp for air . It's an apnea. It's physically viewable. I know i probably had alot of hypnoapneas. But i didn't see anything that clearly resembled an apnea. Snoring alone won't constitute sleep apnea. There has to be a measurable stop(oximeter, airflow, EEG) or a visible(struggling to breath, gasping for air, breathing stops). There are probably some apnea patterns that more subtle.

jnk
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Re: Negative home tests, a dud?

Post by jnk » Wed May 27, 2015 2:30 pm

Watching 40 minutes of sleep tells one nothing at all about possible OSA.

Perhaps less than nothing.

It is negative information.

It sucks any possible information right out of the universe and encrypts it with antimatter so that it can never be retrieved, in fact.

tiredandscared
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Re: Negative home tests, a dud?

Post by tiredandscared » Wed May 27, 2015 2:34 pm

jnk wrote:Watching 40 minutes of sleep tells one nothing at all about possible OSA.

Perhaps less than nothing.

It is negative information.

It sucks any possible information right out of the universe and encrypts it with antimatter so that it can never be retrieved, in fact.
What? What do you mean? It's pretty obvious when somone stops breathing or gasps for air. A hypnoapnea is much harder to detect. Why would seeing yourself breathing and sleeping, not be a an ok method, to give you atleast a rough idea of what's happening? I'm not claiming it's the same as polysomnography. But it does give you cues on how bad things are. If you see yourself stop breathing every 3 or 5 minutes, then it's obvious you have sleep apnea. It's probably not very informative if you have more subtle forms of apnea, like positional sleep apnea or a very mild or borderline form of it.

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palerider
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Re: Negative home tests, a dud?

Post by palerider » Wed May 27, 2015 2:54 pm

tiredandscared wrote:
jnk wrote:Watching 40 minutes of sleep tells one nothing at all about possible OSA.

Perhaps less than nothing.

It is negative information.

It sucks any possible information right out of the universe and encrypts it with antimatter so that it can never be retrieved, in fact.
What? What do you mean? It's pretty obvious when somone stops breathing or gasps for air. A hypnoapnea is much harder to detect.
not necessarily. all depends on the particular reaction of that individual person. a recording of SOUND would be better..

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tiredandscared
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Re: Negative home tests, a dud?

Post by tiredandscared » Wed May 27, 2015 3:01 pm

palerider wrote:
tiredandscared wrote:
jnk wrote:Watching 40 minutes of sleep tells one nothing at all about possible OSA.

Perhaps less than nothing.

It is negative information.

It sucks any possible information right out of the universe and encrypts it with antimatter so that it can never be retrieved, in fact.
What? What do you mean? It's pretty obvious when somone stops breathing or gasps for air. A hypnoapnea is much harder to detect.
not necessarily. all depends on the particular reaction of that individual person. a recording of SOUND would be better..
Done that...it's not clear. When i do snore, i don't hear any stops. Maybe i need to be more meticulous. 5 second intervals between snores.

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Julie
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Re: Negative home tests, a dud?

Post by Julie » Wed May 27, 2015 3:03 pm

Maybe you need to do a legitimate scientific test and stop trying to divine anything with your phone or whatever.

tiredandscared
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Re: Negative home tests, a dud?

Post by tiredandscared » Wed May 27, 2015 3:08 pm

Julie wrote:Maybe you need to do a legitimate scientific test and stop trying to divine anything with your phone or whatever.
In the process of getting one. It can take up to one year to get one on this country. There are only 4 sleep labs in the capital. All of them contracted by the city's muncipality. The muncipalities are responsible for health-care spending, and they're very bureacratic and inefficient. It's quite pertinent issue. I did everything to find a private one. No dice. Even the clinic I went to, was the only that offers snoring/apnea home testing. You guys across the sea have better health-care access i think. But only if it's affordable.

It might seem like i'm an arrogant amateur. But once I try to get to a bottom of something. I try my hardest.

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Julie
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Re: Negative home tests, a dud?

Post by Julie » Wed May 27, 2015 4:55 pm

Oh, I forgot where you were (and I shouldn't, because a friend's daughter married a Swedish man a few yrs ago and now lives there). I hope you can find some answer quickly.

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jnk...
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Re: Negative home tests, a dud?

Post by jnk... » Wed May 27, 2015 8:19 pm

tiredandscared wrote: What? What do you mean? It's pretty obvious when somone stops breathing or gasps for air. A hypnoapnea is much harder to detect. Why would seeing yourself breathing and sleeping, not be a an ok method, to give you atleast a rough idea of what's happening? I'm not claiming it's the same as polysomnography. But it does give you cues on how bad things are. If you see yourself stop breathing every 3 or 5 minutes, then it's obvious you have sleep apnea. It's probably not very informative if you have more subtle forms of apnea, like positional sleep apnea or a very mild or borderline form of it.
Nope. Not necessarily obvious when breathing pauses.

During sleep, on film, not breathing can look exactly like breathing. The body can go through the motions of breathing while the airway is closed. OSA can be kinda creepy that way.

But the larger issue is that 40 minutes ain't even a full sleep cycle. Your breathing may be preventing you from getting the deeper refreshing consolidated form of the sleep the body needs and may be doing so with little to no outward observable indications.

Tired sleepy people have accidents. So the so-called mild or borderline cases can be just as deadly as the so-called severe ones.

Much like a home sleep test, watching someone sleep may prove someone needs CPAP but cannot prove someone does not need CPAP.
-Jeff (AS10/P30i)

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sleepstar
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Re: Negative home tests, a dud?

Post by sleepstar » Thu May 28, 2015 4:30 am

tiredandscared wrote:I'm writing this, because i suspect that my home test that I had might have been negative. I had almost all clinical symptoms of OSA save for 2.

Signs indicative and factorial
1. Always waking up tired.
2. Snoring(mostly positional and depending on how my head placement is relative to body).
3. Day time fatigue.
4. Lack of concentration.
5. Dizzyness.
6. Obese
7. Mood disturbance.

Signs that are counterindicative:
1. Low Apnea(observed by parents and people who've seen me sleep. few apneas).
2. Negative home test study.
3. Snoring not consistent.
4. Normal blood pressure and Sugar levels.

Results from home study test(equipment: Embletta gold)
AHI: 2 per hour.
supine AHI: 5.3 hour
snoring: 11%
average saturation: 96.3%
lowest saturation: 91%
pulse average:79
time spent supine: 9%
apneas: 6%
hypoapnea: 94%

I honestly am not sure whether this test has accurately assesed it or not. According to studies testing the efficiency of Embletta equipment, it is near equal to polysomnographies in accuracy of diagnosing OSA(90% for embletta and 92% for polysomnography). But I have almost every symptom of OSA.

Is it possible for snoring or borderline OSA, to cause the same symptoms as OSA?
You barely slept on your back (only 9% of the time).

When you did, it says you have at least mild sleep apnea.

This means that if you had slept on your back more, you may have demonstrated more sleep apnea. (I don't know if it says what stages of sleep you went into, but if you didn't have your dream sleep (REM) while on your back, then it may underestimate your sleep apnea)

Do you sleep on your back normally? Or were you avoiding your back on the night of the study?

I'd ask for another opinion. Ideally we would want to see more data while you're sleeping on your back.

tiredandscared
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Re: Negative home tests, a dud?

Post by tiredandscared » Thu May 28, 2015 9:50 am

sleepstar wrote:
tiredandscared wrote:I'm writing this, because i suspect that my home test that I had might have been negative. I had almost all clinical symptoms of OSA save for 2.

Signs indicative and factorial
1. Always waking up tired.
2. Snoring(mostly positional and depending on how my head placement is relative to body).
3. Day time fatigue.
4. Lack of concentration.
5. Dizzyness.
6. Obese
7. Mood disturbance.

Signs that are counterindicative:
1. Low Apnea(observed by parents and people who've seen me sleep. few apneas).
2. Negative home test study.
3. Snoring not consistent.
4. Normal blood pressure and Sugar levels.

Results from home study test(equipment: Embletta gold)
AHI: 2 per hour.
supine AHI: 5.3 hour
snoring: 11%
average saturation: 96.3%
lowest saturation: 91%
pulse average:79
time spent supine: 9%
apneas: 6%
hypoapnea: 94%

I honestly am not sure whether this test has accurately assesed it or not. According to studies testing the efficiency of Embletta equipment, it is near equal to polysomnographies in accuracy of diagnosing OSA(90% for embletta and 92% for polysomnography). But I have almost every symptom of OSA.

Is it possible for snoring or borderline OSA, to cause the same symptoms as OSA?
You barely slept on your back (only 9% of the time).

When you did, it says you have at least mild sleep apnea.

This means that if you had slept on your back more, you may have demonstrated more sleep apnea. (I don't know if it says what stages of sleep you went into, but if you didn't have your dream sleep (REM) while on your back, then it may underestimate your sleep apnea)

Do you sleep on your back normally? Or were you avoiding your back on the night of the study?

I'd ask for another opinion. Ideally we would want to see more data while you're sleeping on your back.
I was just sleeping like I usually do. I usually sleep on my side. You'd consider it borderline. Since the desaturation is 91%. Which is just on the border of being too high. 9% out of 8 hours and 30 minutes, is 45.9 minutes. I don't think I was asleep that long, so it could be higher. I probably got some rem sleep. Not sure if much of it was on my back though. Apneas of 10 seconds indicate less disease severity.

tan
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Re: Negative home tests, a dud?

Post by tan » Thu May 28, 2015 10:20 am

tiredandscared wrote:...
...Socialized medicine is best for treating serious cases and common issues. It's not good when dealing with ambiguity.
I beg to differ... OSA/UARS is serious shit.

tiredandscared
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Re: Negative home tests, a dud?

Post by tiredandscared » Thu May 28, 2015 10:26 am

tan wrote:
tiredandscared wrote:...
...Socialized medicine is best for treating serious cases and common issues. It's not good when dealing with ambiguity.
I beg to differ... OSA/UARS is serious shit.
Ahaha try to tell the medical bureacrats that.

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palerider
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Re: Negative home tests, a dud?

Post by palerider » Thu May 28, 2015 10:35 am

tan wrote:
tiredandscared wrote:...
...Socialized medicine is best for treating serious cases and common issues. It's not good when dealing with ambiguity.
I beg to differ... OSA/UARS is serious shit.
in the overall scheme of thing, it really isn't.

compare it to cancer, heart attacks, broken bones, etc etc etc.

things that will kill a person in sort order.

in the medical triage system of taking care of what will kill a person fastest, OSA isn't near the top of the list.

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Re: Negative home tests, a dud?

Post by Guest » Thu May 28, 2015 11:22 am

palerider wrote:
tan wrote:
tiredandscared wrote:...
...Socialized medicine is best for treating serious cases and common issues. It's not good when dealing with ambiguity.
I beg to differ... OSA/UARS is serious shit.
in the overall scheme of thing, it really isn't.

compare it to cancer, heart attacks, broken bones, etc etc etc.

things that will kill a person in sort order.

in the medical triage system of taking care of what will kill a person fastest, OSA isn't near the top of the list.
Sure, but OSA can cause disability(mental impairment, chronic sleepiness) that can even be permanent and non-negible if not treated fast enough. Every severe/moderate case of it that go undiagnosed, can cause people to become disabled(unable to work, because of brain damage or lack of energy). In the most severe cases, people can die from suffocation. It's not exactly a post viral cough or scrape wound. I'd rather have a broken bone(that can mold and heal) than something as devious as OSA.