I've entered a new chapter it seems.

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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OkyDoky
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Re: I've entered a new chapter it seems.

Post by OkyDoky » Mon May 04, 2015 2:15 pm

Noctuary wrote:I can't figure out how to get the whole chart on the screen.

You can do this! I did see where you used F11 for the full screen view.
Now in Sleepyhead see the gray line that runs horizontial between the graphs. Move your curser to that and left click and hold while you use the touchpad to move it and make the graphs smaller.
Also next, move your curser to the graph labels on the left of each graph. Left click and hold while you move them up or down to get them in the order discussed in your other thread.
After resizing the Sleepyhead will remember them and you won't have to do it each time.
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Krelvin
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Re: I've entered a new chapter it seems.

Post by Krelvin » Mon May 04, 2015 2:24 pm

Noctuary wrote:I can't figure out how to get the whole chart on the screen.
https://sleep.tnet.com/reference/tips/imgur
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Krelvin
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Re: I've entered a new chapter it seems.

Post by Krelvin » Mon May 04, 2015 2:34 pm

Noctuary wrote:I'm compliant
Compliant and compliance is an Insurance term. It is what the insurance company wants to see to pay for the machine. You can be 100% compliant, but not getting good therapy.
I use my machine regularly; but in what is now almost a year of therapy I've only really felt good a handful of times.
Hopefully by saying regularly, you mean every time you sleep.

The chart didn't look too bad. I typically am in the 2.5 - 3.5 range mostly due to OA which are related to me moving around and my CHF, so that actually makes it look worse than it is.

If I start having issue in the middle of the night I don't stay down for long. I found it is better to get up out of bed, wander around a bit and then start the sleep process over and I normally do just fine.

But I can have a bad night and feel it the next day. I normally know when I wake up what the night was like before looking.

There can be other issues with your sleep outside of OSA though and other issues to not feeling right.
Current Settings PS 4.0 over 10.6-18.0 (cmH2O) - Resmed S9 VPAP Auto w/h5i Humidifier - Quattro Air FFM
TNET Sleep Resource Pages - CPAP Machine Database
Put your equip in your Signature - SleepyHead v1.0.0-beta-1
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Jay Aitchsee
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Re: I've entered a new chapter it seems.

Post by Jay Aitchsee » Mon May 04, 2015 3:35 pm

Noctuary wrote:As it turns out, I did fall asleep again; the last few hours I've slept on and off. I'll see what sleepyhead says.
The last time you used your ResMed AutoSet...
was last night (on Sunday, May 03, 2015)
You had an AHI of 3.89, which is considered technically "treated"
You machine was on for 10 hours, 17 minutes and 4 seconds.
You had a small but acceptable amount of major mask leakage.
Your pressure was under 13.4691cmH2O for 95% of the time.
Noctuary, please do review sleep hygiene as I and Robysue suggested ("sleep hygiene"). Ten hours is a long time to stay in bed.
As Krelvin says above, there can be reasons other than respiratory for non-restorative sleep and cpap can't fix those. Once your OSA is controlled, you must begin to look elsewhere for answers, but you must start with good sleep hygiene and go from there.

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Re: I've entered a new chapter it seems.

Post by Noctuary » Mon May 04, 2015 4:17 pm

Jay Aitchsee wrote:
Noctuary wrote:As it turns out, I did fall asleep again; the last few hours I've slept on and off. I'll see what sleepyhead says.
The last time you used your ResMed AutoSet...
was last night (on Sunday, May 03, 2015)
You had an AHI of 3.89, which is considered technically "treated"
You machine was on for 10 hours, 17 minutes and 4 seconds.
You had a small but acceptable amount of major mask leakage.
Your pressure was under 13.4691cmH2O for 95% of the time.
Noctuary, please do review sleep hygiene as I and Robysue suggested ("sleep hygiene"). Ten hours is a long time to stay in bed.
As Krelvin says above, there can be reasons other than respiratory for non-restorative sleep and cpap can't fix those. Once your OSA is controlled, you must begin to look elsewhere for answers, but you must start with good sleep hygiene and go from there.
I've looked at sleep hygiene and I already do all those things. The reason I stayed in bed 10 hours is because I woke up early and couldn't get back to sleep for a couple hours.

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Julie
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Re: I've entered a new chapter it seems.

Post by Julie » Mon May 04, 2015 4:20 pm

Better to get up and do some small things, not drink coffee(!), or necessarily get involved on your computer where the screen light will wake you more, but don't just lie there... then go back to bed an hour later for another couple.

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robysue
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Re: I've entered a new chapter it seems.

Post by robysue » Mon May 04, 2015 4:25 pm

Noctuary wrote:Its so discouraging. I don't have major leaks; so why am I still tired? Is it because of broken sleep? Before the sudden onset of this "disease" I would often wake up after a few hours and go back to sleep; I didn't feel bad then. I'm compliant, I use my machine regularly; but in what is now almost a year of therapy I've only really felt good a handful of times.
Even though the whole SH window didn't get captured in your image there are some things that immediately catch my eye in the data that you did post:

1) The CAI is the largest part of your AHI on this night. While your total AHI is well less than 5.0 and your obstructive part of the AHI is very low (OAI + HI = 1.27), your CAI is 2.63. Which, in principle, is nothing to worry about since the total AHI < 5.0. But sometimes a higher than expected CAI can indicate that you are indeed dealing with a lot of fragmented sleep since wake breathing patterns can be misscored as CAs by our machines. Is your CAI usually higher than the OAI and the HI? Or is this night unusual?

2) In the snippet of data that was posted, there's a large cluster of events scored between 2:50ish and 4:40ish. Did you have a whole lot of trouble getting back to sleep after the obvious wake at 2:45 when you turned the machine OFF and back ON? If you were lightly dozing or tossing and turning trying to get back to sleep during this time, that cluster of events may be a lot of SWJ, which means it doesn't really "count" in terms of how well or how badly the apnea is controlled. But long chunks of SWJ indicate that your sleep is pretty fragmented (at best) or that you are not really sleeping (at worst). And this is SWJ, it represents a 2 hour chunk of the night where you were NOT sleeping very soundly (if you were sleeping at all). And 2 hours of SWJ in the middle of the night is more than enough of a disruption to your sleep to make you feel pretty rotten the next morning and into the next day.

3) Do you often see this kind of 1-2 hour clustering of a lot of CAs mixed with a few Hs or OAs right after you have a wake where you turn the machine OFF and back ON? In the morning do you have any memory or sense of how much time you are lying in bed and not really sleeping?

If I had to guess as to what making you tired based on this one small piece of data, I would place my bets on broken or fragmented sleep. The question, of course, is what can you do to encourage the sleep cycles to consolidate and become less fragmented. And if I had a definitive answer for that, I wouldn't still be dealing with fragmented sleep issues of my own.

I do know that in my particular case, certain aspects of sleep hygiene are pretty important in keeping the fragmentation to a minimum. One thing that I have to be careful about is keeping my "time in bed" window sufficiently short that my body knows that it can't pull the trick of wake up and not get back to real, continuous sleep for 40-60 minutes. Another important thing for my body is a regular sleep schedule for all seven days of the week. (I really HAVE to get back into the saddle on that one; this spring I've been way, way too lax about not getting up on time.) And, though I hate to admit it, in my case the judicious use of prescription sleeping pills under the guidance of my sleep doc has helped. With the sleeping pills, I usually manage to get one or two sleep cycles completed between the times I wake up. And the wakes are short enough where I usually don't remember them. (I know they're there because I turn my machine OFF and back ON out of habit.) And if I can get through a night with only 3 or 4 post REM wakes, I usually feel pretty good the next day.

Good luck in trying to track down the source of your fragmented sleep. If you can get your sleep cycles to properly consolidate, you might feel much, much better.

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Re: I've entered a new chapter it seems.

Post by Noctuary » Mon May 04, 2015 4:47 pm

My God, this is overwhelming. And despairing. I just don't understand how I could go for years sleeping great then overnight get this......disease. Now I have to worry about fragmented sleep. There's no end to this.

Thank you Robysue for the analysis.

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Jay Aitchsee
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Re: I've entered a new chapter it seems.

Post by Jay Aitchsee » Mon May 04, 2015 5:03 pm

As mentioned above, many things in addition to SDB can cause poor sleep and fatigue, including depression.

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SleepDisturbed
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Re: I've entered a new chapter it seems.

Post by SleepDisturbed » Mon May 04, 2015 5:09 pm

Relax. When things seem overwhelming just attack the problem one small piece at a time.

All of the below are simple sleep hygiene items that from my own experience helped me.

Do you use your computer/iPad/cell phone within 2 hours of bedtime? Try not doing that.

Do you check your computer/iPad/cell phone when you wake up in the middle of the night? Don't. REALLY!

Do you have an illuminated clock where you can read it? Move it so you can't.

Eliminate as much light as possible. And I mean anything, like power lights on electronic equipment for example. Get your bedroom as dark as you can.

Implement a regular schedule, same bedtime and wake time seven days a week.

No alchohol within 4 hours of bedtime.

There are a lot of other sleep tips, but the above are the behaviors on my part that messed me up. Try some, if they apply to you, see if any help.

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Re: I've entered a new chapter it seems.

Post by Noctuary » Mon May 04, 2015 5:13 pm

SleepDisturbed wrote:Relax. When things seem overwhelming just attack the problem one small piece at a time.

All of the below are simple sleep hygiene items that from my own experience helped me.

Do you use your computer/iPad/cell phone within 2 hours of bedtime? Try not doing that.

Do you check your computer/iPad/cell phone when you wake up in the middle of the night? Don't. REALLY!

Do you have an illuminated clock where you can read it? Move it so you can't.

Eliminate as much light as possible. And I mean anything, like power lights on electronic equipment for example. Get your bedroom as dark as you can.

Implement a regular schedule, same bedtime and wake time seven days a week.

No alchohol within 4 hours of bedtime.

There are a lot of other sleep tips, but the above are the behaviors on my part that messed me up. Try some, if they apply to you, see if any help.
I get home now at 2 am. I would basically have to go to bed then if I don't websurf or do something. I'm always wound up at the end of the night because of my job, which is stressful. If I'm not asleep by 4 am I might have to deal with the great big light in the sky.

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Re: I've entered a new chapter it seems.

Post by Noctuary » Mon May 04, 2015 5:14 pm

Jay Aitchsee wrote:As mentioned above, many things in addition to SDB can cause poor sleep and fatigue, including depression.
I've been depressed all my life but have mostly slept well.

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Jay Aitchsee
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Re: I've entered a new chapter it seems.

Post by Jay Aitchsee » Mon May 04, 2015 5:22 pm

Noctuary wrote:I've been depressed all my life but have mostly slept well.
Noctuary wrote:I've looked at sleep hygiene and I already do all those things. The reason I stayed in bed 10 hours is because I woke up early and couldn't get back to sleep for a couple hours.
Well, OK then.

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SleepDisturbed
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Re: I've entered a new chapter it seems.

Post by SleepDisturbed » Mon May 04, 2015 5:24 pm

Noctuary wrote:
SleepDisturbed wrote:Relax. When things seem overwhelming just attack the problem one small piece at a time.

All of the below are simple sleep hygiene items that from my own experience helped me.

Do you use your computer/iPad/cell phone within 2 hours of bedtime? Try not doing that.

Do you check your computer/iPad/cell phone when you wake up in the middle of the night? Don't. REALLY!

Do you have an illuminated clock where you can read it? Move it so you can't.

Eliminate as much light as possible. And I mean anything, like power lights on electronic equipment for example. Get your bedroom as dark as you can.

Implement a regular schedule, same bedtime and wake time seven days a week.

No alchohol within 4 hours of bedtime.

There are a lot of other sleep tips, but the above are the behaviors on my part that messed me up. Try some, if they apply to you, see if any help.
I get home now at 2 am. I would basically have to go to bed then if I don't websurf or do something. I'm always wound up at the end of the night because of my job, which is stressful. If I'm not asleep by 4 am I might have to deal with the great big light in the sky.
Trouble is, research now seems to indicate that the "blue" light emitted by many of our electronic toys can seriously mess up our sleep systems. Can you read a paper book? Meditate? Scrapbook? Something potentially relaxing that does not involve computer screens?

I lived for three years in Alaska, just north of the arctic circle, which basically means the sun does not go down at all in the middle of the summer. We all had heavy black sun blocking curtains on our bedroom windows. Can you do something like that?

I know that not all of my suggestions will apply to you, just throwing out some suggestions for you to hopefully get you thinking what roadblocks you might be facing because of your life style.

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Re: I've entered a new chapter it seems.

Post by robysue » Mon May 04, 2015 5:31 pm

Noctuary wrote:
SleepDisturbed wrote:Relax. When things seem overwhelming just attack the problem one small piece at a time.

All of the below are simple sleep hygiene items that from my own experience helped me.

Do you use your computer/iPad/cell phone within 2 hours of bedtime? Try not doing that.

Do you check your computer/iPad/cell phone when you wake up in the middle of the night? Don't. REALLY!
I get home now at 2 am. I would basically have to go to bed then if I don't websurf or do something. I'm always wound up at the end of the night because of my job, which is stressful. If I'm not asleep by 4 am I might have to deal with the great big light in the sky.
I'd suggest finding something to do other than websurf. Reading a real book (not a kindle or nook or ipad) comes to mind. Or reading a real newspaper. Listen to some music while working on a crossword puzzle that is printed on paper. Play a game of solitare with real cards. Take a shower. Do a really good job of flossing your teeth.

Yeah, none of these things are as easy as websurfing is to just plop down and do, but the blue light from our electronic gadgets is bad for the melatonin cycle.

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Mask: Swift™ FX Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: PR System DreamStation and Humidifier. Max IPAP = 9, Min EPAP=4, Rise time setting = 3, minPS = 3, maxPS=5