Behavior in this Forum

[Pugsy]

I really try to go by the "if you can't say something nice then don't say anything at all adage"....sometimes I fail because sometimes a 2 X 4 is needed but I don't drag out the wood unless I am really pushed hard. I am human and sometimes I can get just as ugly as the next person. Not something I am all that proud of though.

I got this in a private message from a newbie

Do not want to be a bother! Seen what happens to bothersome people on the site.

Seeing this from a newbie and seeing some of the bickering and fighting and mudslinging that goes on here saddens me because we pride ourselves on being the "best" cpap help forum and if this is what newbies see and feel here....it's pretty sad.
Just one newbie feeling like they can't ask a question because of being afraid of being piled on for being a nuisance is one too many IMHO.

I wish Dori was still here to send the "children" to time out corners when things start getting ugly and here lately they get pretty ugly real fast. Sometimes we spend more time bickering and slinging the F bomb you (which to me breaks my heart to read) than we we actually helping someone.

Maybe we do need a sub forum here....one where we can duke it out and sling mud and cuss each other out...separate from the help section because when there's 1 to 3 pages of nastiness back and forth...the helping comments get totally lost.

Yeah, I know that a recent new member really stretched our patience levels. Mine got stretched to the point it snapped but that's when I decided to bow out rather than keep piling on and on and on with the insults.
But it's more than what happened to Enchanter...it's the overall tone that has become so predominate here that bothers me. The forum veterans roll with the punches but the newbies ..... this must seem like the roughest biker bar in the world to them and it's not sometime that I am particularly proud of.

Yes...we need to correct misinformation at times but I do wish we didn't have to wade through a shitload of nasty banter back and forth to get it done.
And it's not just one person....it's a whole bunch of people involved who just have to get the last nastiest barb in.

2 wrongs don't make a right.

[postitnote]

Reminds me of high school cliques once in a while. I felt a go away vibe when I first posted but the members who welcomed me made more of an impact. For the record, Pale Rider is sweet and funny once you get to know him. Also very intelligent so I do pay attention to his remarks.

[Madalot]

Some people, whether IRL or online, are just assholes. I deal with it in my daily life, when we have been shopping and come out and asshole parks over the lines next to the handicap spot and blocks it so I can't get back into my van. Or when the woman leaves her cart in the middle of the aisle while she goes back to look at something at the other end, making it impossible for anyone else to go down the aisle.

Whether they think they AREN'T assholes or they know it and just don't care, they're out there and there are a LOT of them.

Why should the internet be any different? It's not.

Fortunately, there ARE a lot of really nice, caring and considerate people too, both IRL and on the internet.

The beauty of the internet is that IF you don't want to deal with them, you can walk away. It's harder IRL and some of those assholes will pull a gun on you if you call them out on their behavior.

At least on these forums, it's JUST words. And on that note....

The written word is SO subject to interpretation. I'm thinking back to Enchanter (what this thread is about really) and when he said the woman told him "he didn't sleep the whole night" -- there are two, VERY DIFFERENT ways to interpret that:

Didn't sleep at all the entire night....OR

Slept, but not through the entire night

Those are NOT the same and the response to those isn't the same. And it wasn't clear what SHE meant, only how HE interpreted it.

And I'm with Pugsy 100% -- I wish Dori was here. Dori would straighten those out (myself included if she felt it necessary) that need a good time out.

[cancun]

"And I know this won't go over well, but there are some new people that need a good slap (or hit by a 2x4) because THEY'RE behaving like whiny or undisciplined children. And when they show up, obviously they get smacked pretty quickly."

So some new people come here whiny, well maybe they are scared with this new diagnosis and maybe they were also diagnosed with other health issues at the same time and they are just looking for support and helpful information from people in the same boat. Try to remember what you felt like when diagnosed and how many years you have had to get used to it and how many people on this forum have helped you without out being assholes and treating you like shit.

Follow the golden rule and treat others as you would want to be treated. Or treat at least treat people on these forums as you would want your parents or your children treated. If you can't don't respond.

I haven't even received my CPAP yet but I have been reading trying to get ready for mine and what an "eyeful" I have "read'.

[squid13]

by Pugsy on Sun May 03, 2015 9:31 am
I really try to go by the "if you can't say something nice then don't say anything at all adage"....sometimes I fail because sometimes a 2 X 4 is needed but I don't drag out the wood unless I am really pushed hard. I am human and sometimes I can get just as ugly as the next person. Not something I am all that proud of though.

I got this in a private message from a newbie

Do not want to be a bother! Seen what happens to bothersome people on the site.



Seeing this from a newbie and seeing some of the bickering and fighting and mudslinging that goes on here saddens me because we pride ourselves on being the "best" cpap help forum and if this is what newbies see and feel here....it's pretty sad.
Just one newbie feeling like they can't ask a question because of being afraid of being piled on for being a nuisance is one too many IMHO.

I wish Dori was still here to send the "children" to time out corners when things start getting ugly and here lately they get pretty ugly real fast. Sometimes we spend more time bickering and slinging the F bomb you (which to me breaks my heart to read) than we we actually helping someone.

Maybe we do need a sub forum here....one where we can duke it out and sling mud and cuss each other out...separate from the help section because when there's 1 to 3 pages of nastiness back and forth...the helping comments get totally lost.

Yeah, I know that a recent new member really stretched our patience levels. Mine got stretched to the point it snapped but that's when I decided to bow out rather than keep piling on and on and on with the insults.
But it's more than what happened to Enchanter...it's the overall tone that has become so predominate here that bothers me. The forum veterans roll with the punches but the newbies ..... this must seem like the roughest biker bar in the world to them and it's not sometime that I am particularly proud of.

Yes...we need to correct misinformation at times but I do wish we didn't have to wade through a shitload of nasty banter back and forth to get it done.
And it's not just one person....it's a whole bunch of people involved who just have to get the last nastiest barb in.

2 wrongs don't make a right.

Couldn't of said it better.

[Madalot]

"And I know this won't go over well, but there are some new people that need a good slap (or hit by a 2x4) because THEY'RE behaving like whiny or undisciplined children. And when they show up, obviously they get smacked pretty quickly."

So some new people come here whiny, well maybe they are scared with this new diagnosis and maybe they were also diagnosed with other health issues at the same time and they are just looking for support and helpful information from people in the same boat. Try to remember what you felt like when diagnosed and how many years you have had to get used to it and how many people on this forum have helped you without out being assholes and treating you like shit.

Follow the golden rule and treat others as you would want to be treated. Or treat at least treat people on these forums as you would want your parents or your children treated. If you can't don't respond.

I haven't even received my CPAP yet but I have been reading trying to get ready for mine and what an "eyeful" I have "read'.

When people first come here, out of respect and courtesy, I give them every chance and every benefit of the doubt. And even those that behave badly or are really whiny get a chance with me (and most of us). *I* smack if I feel it necessary, but I try to do it gently and with compassion.

Because I get exactly what you're saying and I agree with it. Because there ARE people here that start the smacking almost immediately and aren't too nice about it. Just like IRL -- they're out there and you have to deal with it. Do and eyeroll and move on.

But there ARE those that come here and right off the bat, behave very badly. It happens and it's fairly obvious. Sometimes they are new people that are scared and struggling. Sometimes we make mistakes and smack someone that needs more time. And in this specific case, robysue came forward and told us that she was working with Enchanter privately and he WAS trying to listen and be better. At that point, enough said and apologies by those that felt they had "smacked" - myself included - were extended.

But this forum is unfortunately attacked by trolls a LOT. People that take some kind of sick pleasure in coming to online forums to cause a ruckus. And sometimes, they PRETEND to be new cpaper's. There have been times that some of the best people here have wasted a LOT of time trying to help someone that was nothing more than an asshole looking to make trouble and have a little fun.

It's not always easy to tell the difference.

People that choose to come to the internet and find an online forum to assist with their needs have to realize that the forums are made up of PEOPLE -- not all people are good. If you truly want help, you have to ignore the trolls and assholes and focus on those that are trying to help.

It's that simple.

[chunkyfrog]

When people come on here looking for help, most of us are eager to offer whatever advice we can.
When someone wants to rant, fine, the denial phase should pass in a reasonable time. We can deal.
I do, however, feel there are limits of how much of whining and attention seeking we should be expected to abide.
This is not a mental health forum, after all. Please, let's try not to get too far off the rails.

[cancun]

I agree whining can't go on forever and I do not handle whining well in my personal life. We just have to give people some time just so as not to scare off those who truly need some help. No one ever wants to encourage trolls, been there done that on other sites.

Now that being said when I get my CPAP and start whining be nice to me I am not a troll!

[palerider]

So far, you haven't said a word although once Roby Sue spoke up, at least you were smart enough not to anything more about him. But it shouldn't haven't taken RS to say anything for people like you to stop ganging up on him.

enchanters behavior *Has* changed...

yours, however...

[Madalot]

I agree whining can't go on forever and I do not handle whining well in my personal life. We just have to give people some time just so as not to scare off those who truly need some help. No one ever wants to encourage trolls, been there done that on other sites.

Now that being said when I get my CPAP and start whining be nice to me I am not a troll!

Sounds like a good plan! And...welcome to the forum (or the Wild West as it is sometimes called).

[49er]

So far, you haven't said a word although once Roby Sue spoke up, at least you were smart enough not to anything more about him. But it shouldn't haven't taken RS to say anything for people like you to stop ganging up on him.

enchanters behavior *Has* changed...

yours, however...

Typical bullying behavior in diverting attention from your own faults and wrongly blaming other people.

[robysue]

So far, you haven't said a word although once Roby Sue spoke up, at least you were smart enough not to anything more about him. But it shouldn't haven't taken RS to say anything for people like you to stop ganging up on him.

enchanters behavior *Has* changed...

Enchanter's behavior has changed, but NOT because of the cruel and unnecessary posts you, TL, and others have made to his threads.

Enchanter's behavior has changed because I have taken the time to respond at length to him both publicly and in PMs with long, detailed posts that fit his learning style. I've been using a large number of 2 x 4's in my responses to his posts and emails, but my 2 x 4's have been applied using polite language that takes into account his nonstandard thinking patterns and learning style. I have persistently and patiently explain things to him over and over because that's what someone with his kind of ADHD/OCB and anxiety impaired way of thinking has to have done. In other words, I've have to politely hit him over the head with the same 2 x 4 enough times for what I'm saying to finally make sense to him. I'm related to enough people who think and express themselves the way Enchanter did in his early posts that I understand people like that are NOT going to "hear" you the first 10 times you say something. But they may hear you the 15th or 20th time. I know my own limits of patience, and Enchanter pushed them, but he never actually pushed my limits far enough for me to write him off.

I don't expect everybody on this board to have the patience to deal with people like Enchanter. And I understand why most people do NOT have the patience to deal with someone like Enchanter. But I would like the people who don't have that kind patience to not get in the way. In other words, if you run out of patience in dealing with a newbie, the proper thing to do is to Just Not Respond to the newbie's threads anymore. Seriously. If all you want to do is post clever insults, it's best to Just Not Respond. Let the people who have more patience deal with the exasperating newbies who irritate the daylights out of you.

yours, however...

And, palerider, your behavior also has not changed. You are always ready to fight, palerider, and you have a hard time letting anything slide.

[Elle]

This USED to be the best cpap forum. I used to recommend cpap.com and cpaptalk it to friends and people on other forums. I now lead them away from it.

I had been away for a while but came back when my two sisters were diagnosed earlier this year. I had told them about this site and was surprised to hear that they were puzzled by my recommendation after they had visited.

I was angry and lashed out when I saw that a bully and his team had taken over and ruined what had been such a great resource to me starting out. I was frustrated and instead of walking away I jumped on the bandwagon and attacked Enchanter.

Bullies have nothing to add education wise because the content of their message is lost to the personality. All people see and hear is "Look at ME. I am the big cheese and I need you to see me". Sadly, some weaker types, remembering back to grade school days, latch on because it is safer to be on the side of the bully.

There are other cpap forums that have the same information regarding cpap but you don't have to wallow in the mire of 'personalities'. You get the help you need and don't feel the urge to take a shower after reading.

I'm glad the haters have a place to spend their days but sadly it was at the expense of truly helpful people and a good host who has no doubt lost some business.

I apologize for my outbursts because it added to the dreck. I finally see that it is not going to change. Many thanks to Pugsy and others who donate their time and compassion to the site. ttfn

[postitnote]

The sad thing is that now people are bullying the people they say are the bullies. I guess my take is that we have to mellow out a bit. Be the bigger person either way and walk away. Let's start fresh!

Hi, my name is Jodi. I'm very glad to be here! I've learned a lot and met some amazing folks. Thanks for all the help I have received.

And btw, if Morbious sees this, 2 days ago I found a groundhog living in our yard. It's so cute and fluffy! I hope it's a boy so we don't have babies. It made a burrow next to the garage that's about 10 feet long. He comes out if I call "kitty, kitty". He plays nicely with the birds, squirrels, and bunnies. Can't wait till next groundhog day to get a really local weather forecast!

[Wulfman...]

Here are some of the posts I've made over the years regarding my thoughts and analogies about the forum.
Like any other place where there are a collection of people with opinions, beliefs and personalities, there can be a multitude of various types of interactions. Some good, some not so much. This was the first forum I actually joined, so it's kind of special to me and for reasons I believe in. I've also been a member of some other forums which were pretty nasty in years past and I didn't join in many conversations.......just offered some thoughts when I thought I could offer my experiences and tried to take what I thought was informative and worthwhile for me and disregard the rest.


Den

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I've also likened the forum to one big long-running backyard party at the Goodman house. Everybody brings "something" to the party. Some bring experience, some bring knowledge and expertise, some ask for help, some seem to want to crash the party (like some "Trolls"), or just mooch off the freebies they can get and then leave.
It is what it is. You can't please everybody.


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On a number of occasions, I've likened this forum to a continuous backyard barbecue/party (at Johnny's house). Some people bring food or beverages to serve......some cook, some tend bar, some clean up, some empty the garbage cans and some try to keep the drunks from beating each other up (or just get out of the way and let them go at it). Some try to keep the party going and be gracious hosts and some are just freeloaders......they didn't bring anything but questions and then when they get them answered, they don't "pay it forward" and just go on their merry way. They don't care if they contribute.....just as long as they got their questions answered, that's all they care about.......let somebody else pay for the beer and food they consumed.

If all of the "old timers" would have left when they got their questions answered, there wouldn't be enough people still here with any knowledge to pass on to the new users with questions.

About the kindest way I can characterize your post is that it was pretty thoughtless and inconsiderate. I looked back through your early posts......and there were a number of the "old timers" who tried to help answer some of your questions, too.

Some people want "just the facts" and some need the "chit chat" to feel better about this therapy. Some people have to be asked repeatedly to join the forum and some have to be asked repeatedly to fill in their equipment profile so we can try to "fill in the blanks" when they say they're having problems with their therapy. Sometimes dragging information out of people is a challenge. This forum is about educating the users......making them more knowledgeable about this therapy, more comfortable with it and them taking control of it. Unfortunately, we haven't succeeded in every case......but we keep trying.

So......what's everyone bringing to the "party"......and after you've partaken in the food and refreshments, are you willing to pitch in and help those who are going to be showing up soon?


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Well.......this IS a "support group".

I've often likened it to a perpetual backyard party. People can come and go as they like.....taste the "fixins", bring their own, contribute what they feel comfortable with and take what (information) helps them.

But, it's kind of like the "Hotel California".......".....you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave......"


Welcome to the "party". Feel free to join in.


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We stumble into this place looking for information about our affliction.....and then we become "comfortable".
I think part of it is the camaraderie. We "meet" other folks that are going through or have gone through some of the same things we are.
In some cases, our spouses can't relate to it and we feel like we need a "friend" to talk to about it. When we try to talk to our spouses about AHIs, Snore Indexes, desaturations, different masks, etc., etc......they just get a glazed look in their eyes and think we're nuts for getting so involved in our therapy. I mean, after all....isn't it just a mask we strap on and then just start the machine....and sleep? Isn't that all there is to it? Why would we NEED to spend so much time online with people we don't know (who can at least relate to what we go through).....when we could be spending it with THEM (who DON'T appreciate or understand what we go through)?

How do you acquire a "friendship" with people you've never met (except through a computer screen)? Darned if I know.....but it happens. And, I think that is the "glue" that holds a good forum like this together.
I kind of drew a parallel of this to something like having one big long party in someone's backyard (Johnny's). Some people come....have a quick bite to eat and leave. Others seem to stay FOR EVER.... (Plus, they eat all the fixins and drink all the beer)

Anyway.....that's my oddball look at this phenomenon.

Johnny.....THANKS for throwing the party!!! You're a gracious host!


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(another follow-up reply to someone regarding the preceding thread post)

There are also people who have to leave the party for awhile.....and then come back. (and bring more food and beverages with them)
Others, watch over or through the fence until they can't stand it any longer.....and have to come on over.
(you can only smell a barbecue for so long till it gets to ya)


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