If you ask for advice, PAY ATTENTION!!!

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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kaiasgram
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Re: If you ask for advice, PAY ATTENTION!!!

Post by kaiasgram » Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:50 pm

Enchanter, I would not recommend starting with a psychiatrist in this case. You mentioned Berkeley earlier so I'm assuming you're in California? In that case, a Clinical Psychologist, Licensed Professional Counselor (LPC), Licensed Clinical Social Worker (LCSW), or Licensed Marriage & Family Therapist (LMFT) would be the best first start. There are numerous approaches to non-medication ways to treat anxiety. I have a couple of references which I'll retrieve for you when I get back later.

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Re: If you ask for advice, PAY ATTENTION!!!

Post by Tatooed Lady » Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:02 pm

chunkyfrog wrote:Crazy is OK, as long as we own it.
Or have a solid rental plan.

This is about anyone who is spitting in the eye of experience.
The following is one scenario.
Seller-"I'm selling an S9 for $550. It's a deal at TWICE THE PRICE, because it's hardly used!"
Member1- "which S9 is it?"
Seller- "why are you hatin' on me?? I'm just trying to sell a find piece of medical equipment!"
Member1- "WHAT?? I'm trying to help you give a full description so you can SELL it instead of use it as a lawn gnome. Which S9? There are 48 different models."
"you're an asshole, stay off my thread and leave me alone."


Yeah. Not annoying at all, right? And no, this thread is NOT all about Enchanter. Although, to be honest, he IS one of the current people I've fantasized whacking upside the head, duct taping to a chair and making him watch Brady Bunch reruns.

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kteague
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Re: If you ask for advice, PAY ATTENTION!!!

Post by kteague » Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:54 pm

Enchanter, I'd just like to suggest that however things look at the moment, you may find them to look different after you're on therapeutic CPAP treatment for a while. Then you'll have a better idea what your new "normal" will look like. The one where your body and brain is not flooded with stress hormones and frazzled from sleep deprivation. Maybe by then you'll be more amenable to some of the non pharmaceutical treatments if anxiety remains an issue. With your experience with anxiety meds, if necessary, at least you'd go into it knowledgeable and with eyes wide open. There are many arenas in life when we find ourselves not acting in our own best interest. Having someone come along our blind side can be a blessing, even when hard to accept their input. A person who does a horrible job with their finances might need to just need to agree to adhere to someone else's plan, whether they feel like it or not. One may avoid accepting financial advice because they don't want to "color within the lines". Same with health and fitness. We don't want to accept someone else's plan when we're holding on to our own ways that got us into trouble. Any time I've been hell bent on having things my own way even after knowing I was not acting in my own best interest, the outcome was memorable - and not in a good way. It takes more strength of character to accept help than blunder along in error. Especially when almost compulsed to persist. Good look finding what will work to enable you to better enjoy life with less worry.

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Enchanter
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Re: If you ask for advice, PAY ATTENTION!!!

Post by Enchanter » Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:09 pm

kteague wrote:Enchanter, I'd just like to suggest that however things look at the moment, you may find them to look different after you're on therapeutic CPAP treatment for a while. Then you'll have a better idea what your new "normal" will look like. The one where your body and brain is not flooded with stress hormones and frazzled from sleep deprivation. Maybe by then you'll be more amenable to some of the non pharmaceutical treatments if anxiety remains an issue. With your experience with anxiety meds, if necessary, at least you'd go into it knowledgeable and with eyes wide open. There are many arenas in life when we find ourselves not acting in our own best interest. Having someone come along our blind side can be a blessing, even when hard to accept their input. A person who does a horrible job with their finances might need to just need to agree to adhere to someone else's plan, whether they feel like it or not. One may avoid accepting financial advice because they don't want to "color within the lines". Same with health and fitness. We don't want to accept someone else's plan when we're holding on to our own ways that got us into trouble. Any time I've been hell bent on having things my own way even after knowing I was not acting in my own best interest, the outcome was memorable - and not in a good way. It takes more strength of character to accept help than blunder along in error. Especially when almost compulsed to persist. Good look finding what will work to enable you to better enjoy life with less worry.

I hope you're right. But I still don't know if I have sleep apnea or not. I don't know when the clinic is gonna call me in or when the doctor is going to call me. All this downtime is making me frustrated. I haven't slept for 36 hours or so now and am my mind is feeling pretty sick.
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Julie
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Re: If you ask for advice, PAY ATTENTION!!!

Post by Julie » Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:41 pm

Go to Emergency and tell them you need help to slow down... do NOT give them the whole damn song and dance about apnea and your MD and the techs and us and who knows what else, just tell them you need to slow down and can't.

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kaiasgram
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Re: If you ask for advice, PAY ATTENTION!!!

Post by kaiasgram » Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:11 pm

Enchanter, here are a couple of good books about anxiety/stress management. The first one is a little old now but still has some good ideas. I used to have it in my office. You may have even heard of the second one, Jon Kabat-Zin is a well known author and teacher.

Based on the history you shared I understand your reluctance to consider medication, so instead of a psychiatrist (psychiatrists are M.D.'s and would be the most inclined to go to medication first), I recommend that you take this time while you're waiting to hear from your doctor and get your sleep study report to do some reading on how to get those spinning thoughts to calm down. And find a good therapist (I mentioned their California licenses in my earlier post) to form a trusting relationship with, and who will work actively with you (not just say mm-hmm and take notes ).

Natural Relief for Anxiety - Edmund Bourne

http://www.amazon.com/Natural-Relief-An ... nt+anxiety

Full Catastrophe Living - Jon Kabat-Zin

http://www.amazon.com/Full-Catastrophe- ... phe+living

I hope you don't have to wait long to get your sleep study results and move on to whatever the next step is. But in the meantime, instead of researching all the "what if's" it would serve you better to research how to reduce the confusion, stress and anxiety you're suffering with.

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Re: If you ask for advice, PAY ATTENTION!!!

Post by Janknitz » Sun Apr 26, 2015 7:11 pm

I second Jon Kabat Zin's Full Catastrophe Living. I just finished the 8 week Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction Class. It's not a miracle cure, but it sure is helping. There's an online version of the class FREE here: http://palousemindfulness.com/selfguidedMBSR.html

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kaiasgram
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Re: If you ask for advice, PAY ATTENTION!!!

Post by kaiasgram » Sun Apr 26, 2015 7:43 pm

Thanks Janknitz, the MBSR online course is a good resource. And Jon Kabat-Zin has a series of MBSR CDs also available as MP3 downloads. If one feels too wound up or too exhausted to read, the guided meditation CDs are a great alternative.

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Re: If you ask for advice, PAY ATTENTION!!!

Post by robysue » Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:13 pm

Enchanter wrote:Robysue, there's something you have to know about me. I was on psych drugs for 7 years at one point and it was very miserable. I've been there done that and I became dependant to the point of suicidal thoughts on them. Now I'm free of them and for the most part I am actually better off and a more reasonable person. If you think my thoughts are bad, they were 1000 times crazier before. I used to worry about things like what someone else is doing in a 3rd world country. And I'd get depressed about those kinds of things.
Fine. I understand that meds are not your thing and that there's a very good reason why meds are not your thing.

But there are many other NON-DRUG ways of controlling anxiety. Listen to kiasgram and JanKnitz's suggestions. You really do need to work on trying to rein in the anxiety you are experiencing right now about the whole sleep test and probably OSA diagnosis to come stuff.
Like I said, I have tried many kinds of therapies already, I've been traveling on a long road.
What kinds of NON-DRUG therapies have you tried for controlling your anxiety? And what things other than increasing the exercise do you do right now for trying to control your anxiety?

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Elle
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Re: If you ask for advice, PAY ATTENTION!!!

Post by Elle » Sun Apr 26, 2015 10:10 pm

I have a sister who manages to turn every conversation in her direction too. Fascinating to watch the con.

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Enchanter
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Re: If you ask for advice, PAY ATTENTION!!!

Post by Enchanter » Sun Apr 26, 2015 10:21 pm

robysue wrote:
Like I said, I have tried many kinds of therapies already, I've been traveling on a long road.
What kinds of NON-DRUG therapies have you tried for controlling your anxiety? And what things other than increasing the exercise do you do right now for trying to control your anxiety?
I have tried different things like the chi machine, listening to sleep music, tai chi, stretching, some yoga. But the problem is that when you do these things, you have an expectation. And I have bought the mindfulness book. I struggle with mindfulness. I have read the whole book, but I cannot just sit there and watch and be present with my thoughts. I get WORSE when I do that.
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archangle
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Re: If you ask for advice, PAY ATTENTION!!!

Post by archangle » Sun Apr 26, 2015 10:50 pm

Let's not forget that people often do get bad answers and advice.

For instance what people get from their doctor, who you should be able to trust.

- You can't have sleep apnea, you're not fat.
- You don't need a sleeping pill for your sleep test.
- It's illegal to adjust your own pressure.
- You can't read your own data.
- The data recorded by your CPAP in your home is useless. You need a $leep te$t.
- Auto CPAP machines are a waste of time.
- Your Zestril pill is not causing your cough.
- Just lose some weight and your apnea will go away.
- You need this new UPPP surgery to fix your apnea.
- You just need to eat free-range organic food and all will be well.
- Fat and protein are bad for you.
- Your insurance won't pay for an APAP.
- This PRS1 Plus machine records full therapy data.
- This PRS1 SE is the current top of the line CPAP machine.
- This is a brand new unused CPAP machine.

However, sometimes you do need to listen.

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Re: If you ask for advice, PAY ATTENTION!!!

Post by Janknitz » Sun Apr 26, 2015 10:54 pm

I have tried different things like the chi machine, listening to sleep music, tai chi, stretching, some yoga. But the problem is that when you do these things, you have an expectation. And I have bought the mindfulness book. I struggle with mindfulness. I have read the whole book, but I cannot just sit there and watch and be present with my thoughts. I get WORSE when I do that.
The key to mindfulness is letting go of expectation. It's not supposed to be striving to relax or do anything other than to observe in awareness and acceptance. Easy to say, VERY HARD to do.

What turned me on to this is a book by Dan Harris called Ten Percent Happier. Great book! I learned my approach to meditation was trying to bat thoughts out of my mind like you shoot at aliens in a video game. But that does not work. You have to let the thoughts happen, then return your focus to your breathing every time. A million times. It's not for wimps--it's hard.

I started with very short meditations. Two minutes, five minutes. Etc. and sometimes I go back to very short sessions. Sometimes my mind is so scattered, but that's part of it. Next time is always different. Nothing is the same, ever. That's ok.
My only job is to be aware and accept where I am in that very moment.
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Re: If you ask for advice, PAY ATTENTION!!!

Post by robysue » Mon Apr 27, 2015 12:01 am

Enchanter wrote:
robysue wrote:
Like I said, I have tried many kinds of therapies already, I've been traveling on a long road.
What kinds of NON-DRUG therapies have you tried for controlling your anxiety? And what things other than increasing the exercise do you do right now for trying to control your anxiety?
I have tried different things like the chi machine, listening to sleep music, tai chi, stretching, some yoga. But the problem is that when you do these things, you have an expectation. And I have bought the mindfulness book. I struggle with mindfulness. I have read the whole book, but I cannot just sit there and watch and be present with my thoughts. I get WORSE when I do that.
You are simultaneously trying too hard and not trying hard enough.

You are trying to hard because you have expectations. And when you don't meet those expectations, you wind up making yourself feel worse. You need to work harder on losing the expectations rather than trying to meet them.

In both yoga and mindfulness, you are not supposed to have expectations. You are simply suppose to accept what is without judging it. I wrote about that in the long post about yoga relaxation on the other thread. But it's hard to let go of expectations and judging. As JanKnitz says, being able to just observe in awareness and acceptance is VERY HARD to do. And you're not trying hard enough to just let go of the expectations and judging. It takes some effort to teach yourself how to do this. And ironically, when you are trying to learn how to observe in awareness and acceptance, one of the things you have to consciously just accept (without jugdement) is that at you might not be doing a great job at "observe in awareness and acceptance."

Since you wind up having expectations that cause you to feel worse when you are trying to do stretching, yoga, meditation, etc., perhaps you should take up something my mother taught me and my brothers: Contemplating one's belly button. Meaning the joy of sitting around and doing and thinking nothing.

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Re: If you ask for advice, PAY ATTENTION!!!

Post by Tatooed Lady » Mon Apr 27, 2015 3:46 pm

Ugh.

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