If you ask for advice, PAY ATTENTION!!!

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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Morbius
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Re: If you ask for advice, PAY ATTENTION!!!

Post by Morbius » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:25 pm

Enchanter wrote: I'm a Warrior ...
You're a <Word removed due to user policy>.

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Enchanter
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Re: If you ask for advice, PAY ATTENTION!!!

Post by Enchanter » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:28 pm

chunkyfrog wrote:Crazy is OK, as long as we own it.
I swear to god that I'm not trying to sabotage myself and I can be seem incoherent and sound like I'm writing jibberish. Why is that? Because for one, I have many thoughts coming from many different angles and also I feel like the whole thing is a struggle. And I have a hard time explaining myself in a way that makes any sense. My thoughts, my sensations, my experiences don't seem to add up to anyone but myself. And I see it, but I own it. Like I said, I'm willing to fight. When the tough gets going the going gets tough. I will admit that I am confused. I will admit that I might think I know more than I do. But I will admit that I want relief.
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Enchanter
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Re: If you ask for advice, PAY ATTENTION!!!

Post by Enchanter » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:29 pm

Morbius wrote:
Enchanter wrote: I'm a Warrior ...
You're a <Word removed due to user policy>.
OMG wow
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Julie
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Re: If you ask for advice, PAY ATTENTION!!!

Post by Julie » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:29 pm

Do you have any IDEA how totally whacko that whole para. sounds? Can't you write that junk but not hit submit? Get it out, but not here!

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Enchanter
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Re: If you ask for advice, PAY ATTENTION!!!

Post by Enchanter » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:31 pm

Julie wrote:Do you have any IDEA how totally whacko that whole para. sounds? Can't you write that junk but not hit submit? Get it out, but not here!
Im so sorry
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robysue
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Re: If you ask for advice, PAY ATTENTION!!!

Post by robysue » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:46 pm

Enchanter wrote:
chunkyfrog wrote:Crazy is OK, as long as we own it.
I swear to god that I'm not trying to sabotage myself and I can be seem incoherent and sound like I'm writing jibberish. Why is that? Because for one, I have many thoughts coming from many different angles
Sometimes the answer is to just slow down. Re-read your posts before submitting them with an eye towards figuring out if what you've written is going to come across as jibberish. Learn to separate the different angles and work on looking at things from one angle at a time instead of trying to look at something from a bunch of different angles.
Enchanter wrote:and also I feel like the whole thing is a struggle. And I have a hard time explaining myself in a way that makes any sense. My thoughts, my sensations, my experiences don't seem to add up to anyone but myself.
Sometimes this indicates that what you've said is just not clear yet. Sometimes it indicates that you need to listen to people when they tell you that what you are saying just doesn't make sense to them. The big picture is that you have to effectively communicate with your doctor(s) to get the help you want from them. And you have to effectively communicate with us if you want folks on the forum to give you feedback that makes sense to you.
Enchanter wrote:And I see it, but I own it. Like I said, I'm willing to fight. When the tough gets going the going gets tough.
Sometimes "fighting when the going gets tough" means acknowledging that your own approach and/or ideas must be modified or abandoned because they are simply not working. I speak from my own experience learned the hard way: For a very long time I refused to even toy with the idea of prescription sleeping medication. I had all kinds of reasons for not wanting to give it a real, serious try. But eventually I had to give in and listen to my current sleep doc about why and how the right kind of regular use of a sleeping pill might make enough of a difference that I would no longer feel exhausted and sleepy on more days than I felt alert and good.
Enchanter wrote:I will admit that I am confused. I will admit that I might think I know more than I do. But I will admit that I want relief.
It's one thing to be confused. It's another thing to know you're confused, but still act like you know everything.

Confusion we can help---if the person asking questions is willing to listen. But confusion combined with an attitude that conveys, "I know everything I need to know" equals arrogance. Or at least that's how it can come across. And it's difficult to help a person who is caught up in their own arrogance and who refuses to listen to what multiple people are telling him/her. Thus, a lot of folks here have developed a certain intolerance of "newbie arrogance"---i.e. the old timers don't particularly like a newbie insisting over and over that we are just plain wrong when we say X, Y, or Z. Or that we just can't possibly understand what's going on---as if we didn't have our own, long and involved backstories; backstories that once upon a time were front page stories here at cpaptalk.com as we navigated our own path through adjustment problems to become fully compliant with therapy and (eventually) started feeling better than we did before we started PAP.

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Pugsy
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Re: If you ask for advice, PAY ATTENTION!!!

Post by Pugsy » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:52 pm

Enchanter wrote:I can be seem incoherent and sound like I'm writing jibberish. Why is that?
Because it goes back to one of the things I have always said....the mind is a powerful thing/drug/whatever and in your case yours isn't letting you listen to common sense reasoning because what we are saying it doesn't want to believe.
That anxiety thing that was mentioned before....it manifests itself in many forms and this is one form.
Your overactive mind isn't doing you any favors and you can't seem to accept that fact.
You believe what you believe is totally the way the world is but the cold hard facts of life is that what your mind keeps telling you is based on incorrect information/thoughts and you are wrong but your mind keeps telling you that you are right and we are all wrong and the world is wrong and you are so totally different that you must be an exception to all the common sense rules out there.

There a lot of combined experience here among the forum members... a lot in various medical fields and a lot in just simple "been there done it" experience...yet you want to argue about what we tell you and you don't have the experience to base what you think you know on any solid medical science. We do.

The polite response from someone who is getting information to questions that they have asked is (whether they agree or disagree with it)...
"thank you for your input"
and even if you think we are total morons and nincompoops and idiots...open up your mind (or at least try to) and accept the fact that we might be right and you might be wrong.

Your mind isn't doing you any favors.

When you keep arguing with folks and essentially ignoring what is really nothing more than common sense then you are not respecting what someone has taking the time to try to explain to you....and if you do that very much here on this forum then your chances of getting much help diminish greatly.
I can tell you what I do when someone disrespects me and what I have taken the time to compose and type...I ignore them from that moment on because of the disrespect.
For heaven's sakes...show some common courtesy.

RobySue is a very, very smart and knowledgeable person when it comes to this stuff. She has already shown you an incredible amount of patience in the time it has taken for her to compose her replies and try to help you understand that what you think you know you don't know or are simply not open to accepting it.

You can either open up your mind or keep it closed...but until you open up your mind it is doubtful that you will ever have much of a chance of resolving your issues.

And with that novel....my patience has now been exhausted. Good luck to you.

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kaiasgram
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Re: If you ask for advice, PAY ATTENTION!!!

Post by kaiasgram » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:55 pm

Enchanter wrote:I swear to god that I'm not trying to sabotage myself and I can be seem incoherent and sound like I'm writing jibberish. Why is that? Because for one, I have many thoughts coming from many different angles and also I feel like the whole thing is a struggle. And I have a hard time explaining myself in a way that makes any sense. My thoughts, my sensations, my experiences don't seem to add up to anyone but myself. And I see it, but I own it. Like I said, I'm willing to fight. When the tough gets going the going gets tough. I will admit that I am confused. I will admit that I might think I know more than I do. But I will admit that I want relief.
Image

This is the voice of anxiety. This is why I (and others) encouraged you early on to work on anxiety management.

This is the way anxiety operates: It looks for something to attach itself to. Once it finds something, it holds on tight. If that issue gets resolved, then the anxiety looks for something else. Until it is addressed, anxiety will always be one step ahead of you.

You worried something was wrong, so you made the doctor appointment. Then you worried about whether the doctor would believe you and order a sleep study. He did. Then you worried that the sleep study would not show anything wrong. It did. Now you're worried that the hard evidence of sleep-disordered breathing (EEG data) is incorrect. Do you see how your anxiety is choking you?

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palerider
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Re: If you ask for advice, PAY ATTENTION!!!

Post by palerider » Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:01 pm

Enchanter wrote:
chunkyfrog wrote:Crazy is OK, as long as we own it.
I swear to god that I'm not trying to sabotage myself and I can be seem incoherent and sound like I'm writing jibberish. Why is that? Because for one, I have many thoughts coming from many different angles and also I feel like the whole thing is a struggle. And I have a hard time explaining myself in a way that makes any sense. My thoughts, my sensations, my experiences don't seem to add up to anyone but myself. And I see it, but I own it. Like I said, I'm willing to fight. When the tough gets going the going gets tough. I will admit that I am confused. I will admit that I might think I know more than I do. But I will admit that I want relief.
I *STRONGLY* suggest you seek the help of a psychiatrist, who can perhaps help you put your thoughts in order, and prescribe some medication to help calm them... then you can tackle other things.

it's even possible that your psychiatric problems are a result of, or exacerbated by, sleep apnea, and when you get that taken care of, then the anxiety and incessant rush of thoughts through your head will abate somewhat.

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Enchanter
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Re: If you ask for advice, PAY ATTENTION!!!

Post by Enchanter » Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:10 pm

Pugsy wrote:
Enchanter wrote:I can be seem incoherent and sound like I'm writing jibberish. Why is that?
Because it goes back to one of the things I have always said....the mind is a powerful thing/drug/whatever and in your case yours isn't letting you listen to common sense reasoning because what we are saying it doesn't want to believe.
That anxiety thing that was mentioned before....it manifests itself in many forms and this is one form.
Your overactive mind isn't doing you any favors and you can't seem to accept that fact.
You believe what you believe is totally the way the world is but the cold hard facts of life is that what your mind keeps telling you is based on incorrect information/thoughts and you are wrong but your mind keeps telling you that you are right and we are all wrong and the world is wrong and you are so totally different that you must be an exception to all the common sense rules out there.

There a lot of combined experience here among the forum members... a lot in various medical fields and a lot in just simple "been there done it" experience...yet you want to argue about what we tell you and you don't have the experience to base what you think you know on any solid medical science. We do.

The polite response from someone who is getting information to questions that they have asked is (whether they agree or disagree with it)...
"thank you for your input"
and even if you think we are total morons and nincompoops and idiots...open up your mind (or at least try to) and accept the fact that we might be right and you might be wrong.

Your mind isn't doing you any favors.

When you keep arguing with folks and essentially ignoring what is really nothing more than common sense then you are not respecting what someone has taking the time to try to explain to you....and if you do that very much here on this forum then your chances of getting much help diminish greatly.
I can tell you what I do when someone disrespects me and what I have taken the time to compose and type...I ignore them from that moment on because of the disrespect.
For heaven's sakes...show some common courtesy.

RobySue is a very, very smart and knowledgeable person when it comes to this stuff. She has already shown you an incredible amount of patience in the time it has taken for her to compose her replies and try to help you understand that what you think you know you don't know or are simply not open to accepting it.

You can either open up your mind or keep it closed...but until you open up your mind it is doubtful that you will ever have much of a chance of resolving your issues.

And with that novel....my patience has now been exhausted. Good luck to you.
I think you've made a good point. A lot of the things I talked about as far as the staff not giving me an answer or the fact I didn't know I slept and can't believe it.. I just said what I thought at that time.

So there is some major confusion. But maybe that's because it's not my job to try to figure this out. I just have to trust the staff that they are getting things right.

Robysue has been very helpful. I do appreciate what she does. It's just that I have a lot of frustration and anxiety about all of this. Like she says, I need to slow down a little bit.
My Current Therapies
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- Allergy Shots + nose Spray + Hepa Air Purifier
- Cardiovascular Exercise + Stretching

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Enchanter
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Re: If you ask for advice, PAY ATTENTION!!!

Post by Enchanter » Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:14 pm

kaiasgram wrote:
Enchanter wrote:I swear to god that I'm not trying to sabotage myself and I can be seem incoherent and sound like I'm writing jibberish. Why is that? Because for one, I have many thoughts coming from many different angles and also I feel like the whole thing is a struggle. And I have a hard time explaining myself in a way that makes any sense. My thoughts, my sensations, my experiences don't seem to add up to anyone but myself. And I see it, but I own it. Like I said, I'm willing to fight. When the tough gets going the going gets tough. I will admit that I am confused. I will admit that I might think I know more than I do. But I will admit that I want relief.
Image

This is the voice of anxiety. This is why I (and others) encouraged you early on to work on anxiety management.

This is the way anxiety operates: It looks for something to attach itself to. Once it finds something, it holds on tight. If that issue gets resolved, then the anxiety looks for something else. Until it is addressed, anxiety will always be one step ahead of you.

You worried something was wrong, so you made the doctor appointment. Then you worried about whether the doctor would believe you and order a sleep study. He did. Then you worried that the sleep study would not show anything wrong. It did. Now you're worried that the hard evidence of sleep-disordered breathing (EEG data) is incorrect. Do you see how your anxiety is choking you?
Yes I do. And in a way, a lot of my thoughts aren't real. Some of them are valid, but some of them don't make sense. Like the fact I went to the doctor was good. But worrying about the test results being wrong.. That's probably my anxiety. Some of my concerns are not appropriate. It's just that when you say anxiety management, I don't know what you mean exactly. That could mean many things. I used to go to the psychiatrists a long time ago, but it never really went that well. It was just talking to someone and having them take notes.
My Current Therapies
- CPAP + Humidifier
- Allergy Shots + nose Spray + Hepa Air Purifier
- Cardiovascular Exercise + Stretching

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Gasper62
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Re: If you ask for advice, PAY ATTENTION!!!

Post by Gasper62 » Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:17 pm

What you "need", IMO is psych eval. and probably an Rx or two for anti-anxiety meds. The whole wet nursing phase was entertaining, now, it's just tiresome.

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palerider
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Re: If you ask for advice, PAY ATTENTION!!!

Post by palerider » Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:19 pm

Pugsy wrote: RobySue is a very, very smart and knowledgeable person when it comes to this stuff.
I couldn't possibly agree more.

plus being amazingly analytical, and excellent at comprehending and explaining things in great detail.

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robysue
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Re: If you ask for advice, PAY ATTENTION!!!

Post by robysue » Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:32 pm

Enchanter wrote: Yes I do. And in a way, a lot of my thoughts aren't real. Some of them are valid, but some of them don't make sense. Like the fact I went to the doctor was good. But worrying about the test results being wrong.. That's probably my anxiety. Some of my concerns are not appropriate. It's just that when you say anxiety management, I don't know what you mean exactly. That could mean many things.
Anxiety management can be done in a number of ways. It all depends on what works best for you.

For people with severe anxiety problems (and you sound like you may be one of them), requesting help from a doctor (psychiatrist) or a clinical psychologist or other counselor is the first step. Again you need to be open with the doctor about your symptoms (rather than speculating on their causes) and you need to listen to the proposed form of treatment with open ears and an open mind.

Some people benefit from taking medication such as Xanax. Some people can manage the anxiety in nonpharmaceutical ways, loosely referred to as cognitive behavior therapy (CBT). Some people need a combined approach: some medication and some CBT. And the exact form the CBT takes is largely up to the patient and the person treating the patient, but as a general rule, CBT is about teaching you specific coping strategies to manage the anxiety. In other words, CBT is about teaching you to replace one set of behaviors/reactions that tend to increase the anxiety with another set of behaviors/reactions that tend to manage the anxiety and keep it under control.
I used to go to the psychiatrists a long time ago, but it never really went that well. It was just talking to someone and having them take notes.
For treatment of anxiety to be effective, you and the doc have to get beyond you just talking and the doc just taking notes. You need to get to the point where you and the doc have a serious conversation about: What are your (meaning YOU, not the doctor's) goals for therapy? Are your goals realistic? If not, the goals need to be revised until they are realistic. And what are the steps YOU (not the doc) need to do in order to start making progress towards meeting your realistic goals? And how will YOU (and the doc) assess the progress you are making towards meeting your realistic goals?

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Enchanter
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Re: If you ask for advice, PAY ATTENTION!!!

Post by Enchanter » Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:38 pm

robysue wrote:
Enchanter wrote: Yes I do. And in a way, a lot of my thoughts aren't real. Some of them are valid, but some of them don't make sense. Like the fact I went to the doctor was good. But worrying about the test results being wrong.. That's probably my anxiety. Some of my concerns are not appropriate. It's just that when you say anxiety management, I don't know what you mean exactly. That could mean many things.
Anxiety management can be done in a number of ways. It all depends on what works best for you.

For people with severe anxiety problems (and you sound like you may be one of them), requesting help from a doctor (psychiatrist) or a clinical psychologist or other counselor is the first step. Again you need to be open with the doctor about your symptoms (rather than speculating on their causes) and you need to listen to the proposed form of treatment with open ears and an open mind.

Some people benefit from taking medication such as Xanax. Some people can manage the anxiety in nonpharmaceutical ways, loosely referred to as cognitive behavior therapy (CBT). Some people need a combined approach: some medication and some CBT. And the exact form the CBT takes is largely up to the patient and the person treating the patient, but as a general rule, CBT is about teaching you specific coping strategies to manage the anxiety. In other words, CBT is about teaching you to replace one set of behaviors/reactions that tend to increase the anxiety with another set of behaviors/reactions that tend to manage the anxiety and keep it under control.
I used to go to the psychiatrists a long time ago, but it never really went that well. It was just talking to someone and having them take notes.
For treatment of anxiety to be effective, you and the doc have to get beyond you just talking and the doc just taking notes. You need to get to the point where you and the doc have a serious conversation about: What are your (meaning YOU, not the doctor's) goals for therapy? Are your goals realistic? If not, the goals need to be revised until they are realistic. And what are the steps YOU (not the doc) need to do in order to start making progress towards meeting your realistic goals? And how will YOU (and the doc) assess the progress you are making towards meeting your realistic goals?

Robysue, there's something you have to know about me. I was on psych drugs for 7 years at one point and it was very miserable. I've been there done that and I became dependant to the point of suicidal thoughts on them. Now I'm free of them and for the most part I am actually better off and a more reasonable person. If you think my thoughts are bad, they were 1000 times crazier before. I used to worry about things like what someone else is doing in a 3rd world country. And I'd get depressed about those kinds of things.

Also, I used to be in Scientology. Not anymore thought, but they taught me a lot on the truth of the business of drugs. I'm not trolling anyone when I say I was in Scientology. Like I said, I have tried many kinds of therapies already, I've been traveling on a long road.
My Current Therapies
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- Allergy Shots + nose Spray + Hepa Air Purifier
- Cardiovascular Exercise + Stretching