I am experimenting....again

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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Pugsy
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I am experimenting....again

Post by Pugsy » Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:47 pm

For those that care...I am back to machine experimenting again. You know me...I get bored and like to play with stuff.
Many of you know that I have been using the S9 Adapt (36007) since Jan of last year and doing very well with it.
I have always been curious how it would compare to the equivalent in the Respironics PR S1 line but since I really like the heated hose feature I had to wait till I found a 960 model that would fit in my pocketbook.

So today it finally arrived.

Over the past 6 years I have used/tried more Respironics machines than ResMed and I was always well pleased with them so I really didn't/don't expect there to be any issues with this machine. A brief trial to confirm everything worked like it should pretty much confirmed what I expected and have experienced in the past.
It's pretty much silent except for during inhale and I get a little bit of "noise" on inhale which I have always had with Respironics machines (I think mainly it's conductive noise through the hose) and it really is a minor noise to me and not an issue. I have had a similar "noise" on exhale with the ResMed machines I have owned.

I have my settings somewhat close to what I used on the Adapt and I should be good to go tonight. There are more setting options on this machine than my Adapt but I think I have it close enough to get me in the ball park.

I don't really expect anything earth shattering to happen. I am just doing this because I can and I like to experiment and compare stuff because it gives me something interesting to do and look at. My sleep apnea therapy long ago became totally boring. I guess it remains to be seen just how much of a ResMed snob (private joke) that I have become.

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JohnO
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Re: I am experimenting....again

Post by JohnO » Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:55 pm

Good Luck! I'm always interested in your research. I've had the Respironics DS560 since I began therapy so I don't have anything else to compare to.

At least I've played the field with masks!

John

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Sheriff Buford
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Re: I am experimenting....again

Post by Sheriff Buford » Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:34 pm

Let us know how it goes... Sheriff

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Pesser
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Re: I am experimenting....again

Post by Pesser » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:03 pm

How many machines do you have?

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Pugsy
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Re: I am experimenting....again

Post by Pugsy » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:19 pm

Pesser wrote:How many machines do you have?
2 with me at the present...the Adapt and this 960.
One other is a PR S1 BiPap 760 is out on loan at the present as we are doing a DIY project.
So right now...technically 3.

I buy something and sell something else to help pay for my little experiments. It's the only way I can do this stuff.
Has to be a good deal and I usually have to sell something first...which I did with this time also. Depends on the deal.

Wulfman has me beat by a mile with how many machines he has because he has almost all of the machines he has ever purchased (if he ever sold one) He probably currently owns and currently has in his possession more than I have ever owned in total.

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SleepDisturbed
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Re: I am experimenting....again

Post by SleepDisturbed » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:36 pm

I can see the trailer now, Pugsy wearing a crash helmet and old leather flight jacket ( with lots of unit patches) resolutely preparing to test fly another new and potentially deadly CPAP.

I think Marvel could make a mint off this story. "Pugsy - The Dark World".

Who would you like to play you in the movie -- Scarlett Johanssen, or maybe Jay-Lo?




Seriously, thanks for all the time money and effort you put in.

(Skin tight leather maybe?)

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Re: I am experimenting....again

Post by Pugsy » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:42 pm

SleepDisturbed wrote:Scarlett Johanssen, or maybe Jay-Lo?
Jay-Lo because she has the butt that I wish I had all my life. I inherited the flat butt gene and all my life I wanted some curves but sadly it wasn't meant to be.

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SleepDisturbed
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Re: I am experimenting....again

Post by SleepDisturbed » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:51 pm

OK, you got it. It is, after all YOUR story!

(On the other hand, Scarlett got some serious back too, you know!)

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Wulfman...
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Re: I am experimenting....again

Post by Wulfman... » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:52 pm

Pugsy wrote:
Pesser wrote:How many machines do you have?
2 with me at the present...the Adapt and this 960.
One other is a PR S1 BiPap 760 is out on loan at the present as we are doing a DIY project.
So right now...technically 3.

I buy something and sell something else to help pay for my little experiments. It's the only way I can do this stuff.
Has to be a good deal and I usually have to sell something first...which I did with this time also. Depends on the deal.

Wulfman has me beat by a mile with how many machines he has because he has almost all of the machines he has ever purchased (if he ever sold one) He probably currently owns and currently has in his possession more than I have ever owned in total.
Yeah, but........I was looking at the "long-term" with my therapy with the same generation of machines. I liked them at the time I started and after seeing what came later, I decided I REALLY LIKED THEM! They all use the same parts and software, so I don't have to worry about compatible and other issues.

Here's the bottom line dollar amount I have invested in all 10 machines.......$2598.00.
If you add in the $492 my insurance provider reimbursed me in my initial purchase, that's a little over $3000.
I don't think $260 - $300 is too bad for a per machine average. Some came with humidifiers, tanks and hoses, card readers and other accessories. Besides the three I purchased new from CPAP.COM, some were purchased from forum members, individuals on the old CPAPAuction.com site, etc. All but three of the "previously owned" machines (7) had 10 or less blower hours on them. So, essentially "new" or "unused".

I have no regrets with my decisions.

Good luck to you, Pugsy, with your experiments. I'll be watching and reading if you're going to keep us updated.

I can't remember if it was back in late 2006 or early 2007 that I got past my (somewhat brief) experimenting stage and settled in on "boring" therapy. But, it is what it is. Not much I can do to improve what I see in my numbers and as I've said before, with straight pressure, the main difference is my varying numbers during the year(s)........which seem to follow similar patterns each year........which is also somewhat interesting and puzzling to me.


Den

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Pugsy
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Re: I am experimenting....again

Post by Pugsy » Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:21 pm

Den.... I think I am at a total of 9 over the past 6 years counting today's arrival. Of course I started with the M series machines and I was always happy with the 2 that I had back then and have always been happy with the subsequent models as they came out.

I know your reasons for your choices and I actually understand them and they make a lot of sense but I guess I just have a bit of the wander lust thing going on where I just like to try new stuff just to try it.
I would never advise someone to do what I do unless they totally understand what their expectations are and understand what they are doing.

For me it has never been about striving for more "perfect" therapy or the "miracle". I fully understand that the machine can only do so much and it can't fix all that is wrong with me so I am good with that. I accept that I don't wake up feeling like doing a marathon...hell I wouldn't feel like it even if I didn't have sleep apnea.
It's more about scratching a curiosity itch than anything else...see what something is like and that's why I also will try just about any mask if it is the least bit interesting to me.
Rested Gal is like me....she liked to try different machines too and in fact one of the last times I talked much with her she was looking for an ASV to try. At the time it didn't interest me and the cost was prohibitive so it went on the back burner until I actually got to a point where I was more comfortable with the high end machines...yeah they are designed for central apnea but they do a bang up good job on obstructive apnea too. And yeah I know it's over kill but hey...I just got that itch to scratch.

Besides...now when someone tells me their 960 sounds like a freight train I can truly tell them to take the damn thing back because it surely isn't normal for that machine to be very loud.

My experiment shortly....I have both machines on the bed and I plan to do some experiments to see if I can tell much difference in noise when masked up.
I may enlist hubby tomorrow (he's not home tonight) to help with the judging as I have a bit of a problem with hose conducted noise that tends to cloud my perception a bit.
Last time we did this experiment it was between the PR S1 BiPap Auto and the S9 VPAP Auto....and surprisingly the PR S1 won but just by a hair. He said that he thought the PR S1 was just a tiny bit more quiet....and no...he doesn't need a hearing aid.
He has always maintained that he has never been able to hear the machine unless he really has to focus and listen and then it is a very faint noise...and we don't use white noise or fan or anything in the bedroom....sometimes hears some vented air from the mask if it bounces off the covers or used to hear the gurgling of rain out in the hose which would wake the dead but the heated hose fixed all that for me.

I did learn a long time ago when I told I was getting "another" machine and he would say "why" that the "it's quieter" excuse didn't fly. So finally I just told the truth....because I want to try it and I get anything I want anyway.

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Re: I am experimenting....again

Post by Papit » Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:08 am

I love your yen for experimenting! Will be interested in how the two mfr's machines compare. I wonder especially if you'll see much difference in the Flow Limitations graph in going from the ResMed Adapt to Respironics' machine. Good luck in your latest experiment!

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Re: I am experimenting....again

Post by Pugsy » Fri Apr 24, 2015 8:34 am

Papit wrote:. I wonder especially if you'll see much difference in the Flow Limitations graph in going from the ResMed Adapt to Respironics' machine.
My Adapt is model 36007 and doesn't give flow limitation graphs but back when I was using the VPAP Auto my flow limitation graphs were totally boring...rarely a blip on them.
Which also went along with the Respironics FL reporting (which doesn't do the graph but flags them in the events) and in the past as long as my minimum pressure was optimal I never really had a problem with FLs.

I know your FL graph situation is one of your concerns but I am not going to be able to shed any light on your situation.
I would need an Adapt (36037) that would give me flow limitation graphs to be able to compare to.....or maybe in the future the next experiment would be with the AirCurve version of my Adapt . You know me..always thinking ahead but it takes time and the 960 took me quite a while to find one that I could afford. It's going to be awhile before the AirCurve models filter down to the secondary market where I can afford to experiment.

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Re: I am experimenting....again

Post by Pugsy » Fri Apr 24, 2015 8:55 am

So my report from last night.
It was a bad night all around but not because of the 960. Multiple, multiple (too many to estimate) wake ups during the night for a whole bunch of reasons.
The cat decided to sit on the machine a couple of times and turned it off.
The dog didn't like the cat sitting on the machine or the bed and would growl her displeasure.
It's been cold and rainy the last few days and my back hurts like hell...so a lot of wake ups due to general pain.
Some dumb ass didn't take her usual meds to help with the back pain...that's the dumb ass's fault that she woke up a lot more times than usual from the back pain.
There was a little bit of hyper awareness to the 960's inhale noise that was new to me (compared to the Adapt) though not unexpected since I have had it with all Respironics machines.
Woke up sometimes really noticing it and sometimes woke up and didn't even hear it.

AHI was 3 something consisting mainly of hyponeas and a handful of OAs. I need to raise the minimum EPAP from 5 to maybe 6 or 6.5 (been using 6.6 on the Adapt).

When hubby gets home tonight I am going to ask for his input on that "inhale" noise that I hear to try to determine how much of it is in my head and how much is out there in the real world. It's been 15 months since I used a Respironics machine so I know I have to "adjust" to the noise all over again and eventually my brain will tune it out like it always does and just like it did when I would wake up last night and not notice it until I thought about it.
I went through the same thing with the ResMed machines' exhale noise.

While I had both machines on the bed last night I turned each on to just hear the motor noises (put my hand over the air exhaust to get rid of the air movement noise that is so loud when a person is not attached) and both machines had about the same motor noise and I would hear a slight change when the machine went from exhale to inhale.
It's minor...I had to put my ear about 2 inches from either machine to hear it. A foot away and I couldn't even tell that the machines were on.

I am pretty sure the bulk of the "noise" I hear during inhale/exhale with either machine is "conductive" noise that is amplified by the hose. If I stick my fingers in my ears I hear the same noise at pretty much the same volume level which can only happen if the noise is in my head. I don't think my husband will be able to hear a thing but will check with him just in case.

Overall last night...a crappy night but not because of the machine...it would have been a crappy night no matter which machine I used because of all the other stuff. Got almost 8 hours on it and no real issues with the machine itself or how it decided it wanted to do its job in general. Saw a similar pattern in IPAP numbers that I had with the Adapt.

Way too early to decide which brand I prefer in general.

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Re: I am experimenting....again

Post by yaconsult » Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:26 am

Good luck in your experiments, Pugsy - we all benefit from what you learn!

How about trying a smart phone or ipad app to act as a "sound meter" or "noise meter" and measure the amount of noise from the machine? There seem to be free apps for android and apple to do this. Whether the amount of noise is in the range where it can be accurately measured is another matter. But it should at least allow you to compare two machines if you measure from the same distance away.

It would be fascinating to read some objective comparison between generations and brands of the machines supported by sleepyhead. I guess part of the problem is that the companies come up with their own marketing names for their features. Has each generation of machines been better than the last? Some "features" end up being flops and going away - like AutoIQ, right?

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Re: I am experimenting....again

Post by Pugsy » Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:55 am

yaconsult wrote:Has each generation of machines been better than the last
I think that in general each generation of machine has been better than the last in at least some areas. Now as to whether those areas are absolutely critical areas in terms of effective therapy is open for discussion and really comes down to a person's needs and wants and preferences.
Case in point...Den (WulfMan) is totally happy with his Legacy series machines and has no need or desire to "upgrade" because he doesn't need or what whatever changes have been made to the models since his Legacy machines were the latest and greatest.
His needs or wants or preferences are his though...not mine or yours or John Doe down the street. When I say that everything regarding cpap therapy comes with a big YMMV sticker I really mean "everything".
We all have different wants/needs/preferences and we just have to figure out what it takes to satisfy our own particular wants/needs/preferences and there is no right or wrong...there's just what works for each of us as an individual.

Some people have that need to scratch the curiosity itch...some don't. I am one of those that likes to scratch an itch when I can just because it itches.

I don't know about an app on the phone for noise detection...if I can just barely hear the machine with my ear from the machine it's going to be tough.
I really think it is conductive noise which no one but me can hear....my husband and I have done this experiment before...he hears absolutely nothing beyond a faint hum of the machine with his ear right next to the machine and nothing at all 2 feet way....and I hear a little bit of darth vadar.

I will think on the app thing after I enlist hubby in this next experiment after we determine what he hears or doesn't hear. If he doesn't hear darth vadar with his face right next to mine...it's all in my head.

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