Do you ever feel lack of blood flow in brain when waking?

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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Enchanter
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Re: Do you ever feel lack of blood flow in brain when waking?

Post by Enchanter » Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:10 pm

yaconsult wrote:I hope things are better where you are, but around here, sleep lab appointments are normally about three months in advance - they are always booked. However, if there is a long wait you can usually opt to be put on a waiting list and they will call you when/if they get a cancellation. The disadvantage is that you have to be ready to go with little to no advance notice. The advantage is that you can get tested much sooner. This happened to me and I got tested over a month earlier than I was scheduled for. But I was called when I was at a hobby activity at 7:30 PM and had to get there ASAP. I arrived at about 9 PM.

If they don't have an opening for a while, you can also ask if home tests are available. They are not as detailed or thorough, though, so in your case it might be worth waiting for the lab test.

But let's be hopeful that you can get an appointment to be tested soon. It will definitively answer your questions about whether or not you have sleep apnea. They monitor brain waves, breathing, movement, oxygen saturation - there's no fooling the test. It will give you an answer. Best of luck to you!

What??? It takes 3 months to get a sleep appointment? OMG! I thought it would be just anytime! How could they be THAT busy?? What about people that need help??
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Re: Do you ever feel lack of blood flow in brain when waking?

Post by Enchanter » Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:15 pm

robysue wrote:
Enchanter wrote:
HoseCrusher wrote:
Let's play a mind game for a minute: Suppose you had your own oximeter to use every night. And suppose it shows that your O2 levels stay relatively high all night long night after night. (Not all people with OSA experience signficant O2 desats.) What would you think then? You'd still be feeling the same way you're feeling now, but would you then change how you describe how you are feeling?
Well how could I change my description on how I feel when that is how I've ALWAYS said I have felt?

I'd think I have to exercise even more and try to become in the best shape I possibly could be in, and pray that it would get rid of my problem. So in other words, work harder and smarter. But it's hard to imagine that now... If I was able to get treated, working harder would be easier and more natural, if you will.

I don't think I'd describe how I'm feeling. I'd say I feel my brain is fatigued when I wake up in the morning and I feel like it's not getting enough oxygen and blood. It's like if I hurt my ankle and the test showed no damage, I'd say my ankle is in pain. I'm firm and adamant.
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Re: Do you ever feel lack of blood flow in brain when waking?

Post by Julie » Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:25 pm

Enchanter - if you run into an actual emergency situation for whatever reason or concerning whatever medical system seems to be involved, you're free of course to see your doctor or go to any hospital. Most of us only found out about our apnea (and related stuff) after years, often decades) of feeling like crap, of having to cut short activities, of losing jobs, even marriages, and we've mostly all managed to manage. Finding out we had apnea was only the beginning because then you're dealing with equipment and settings, and maybe PLMD, and meds - not all of which are compatible with Cpap, and unsupportive partners, and mask problems and not feeling better immediately or maybe even after a while. We've been there, done that and survived and I can't remember the last time someone here definitely said that they had a better answer than Cpap (except for a very few who turned out not to need it for different reasons). You're not as old as the majority of us, you're obviously pretty fit compared to most of us, however much you don't feel it (and I honestly think you may partly - just partly, don't get excited - be ignoring the fact that you are somewhat older than 10 yrs ago), so try to get a grip for a while until you find the answers. We're all dealing with stuff here too and still want to help newbies, but a break from demanding ones or those in denial (of anything) might be nice. We'll hold your hand as well as we can, but being patients ourselves, not docs, can only do so much here - on paper - and have other people to hold hands with too. I really hope you find your answers - seriously - let us know how it goes as it does, but please stop accusing us of not understanding... we get it, really, and will wait to see what happens... but sometimes it's not all about you.

When's the last time you asked any of us how WE're feeling today?

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Re: Do you ever feel lack of blood flow in brain when waking?

Post by robysue » Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:48 pm

Enchanter wrote:This is what I feel. I can't lie to my doctor and try to say it's something else. I'm not sure if it's oxygen or blood, but it's probably one of those two. When I wake up, I feel as if my brain is trying to get blood back.
No one is telling you to lie to your doctor.

We are telling you to stick to describing your symptoms as symptoms instead of trying to tell the doc what's causing your symptoms.

When you tell the doc that you are feeling awful (or weird or strange) because your brain is trying to get the blood back you are NOT describing your symptoms. You are telling the doc what you think the problem is and you're describing your theory in language that simply does not make sense medically speaking.

So yes, I believe that something that is physically real is going with you, your body, and your sleep. But right now you tend to vaguely describe your symptoms in language that is easy to misinterpret and then describe at length what you believe is causing your not very well described symptoms. And you're describing your theory about what is wrong with you in language that just does not make any medical sense.

At your doctor's appointment tomorrow, you need to describe your symptoms in language that accurately communicates the actual symptoms and how they physically make you feel.

I've read every post I've seen from you. And you know that I've carefully read a lot of them and I've made a lot of comments and asked a lot of questions. Here's my advice for what you need to tell the doc when you see him/her tomorrow:

Doc: Why did you come in today?

You: I don't sleep very well. Even when I get 8 hours of sleep I wake up feeling unrested (or tired or exhausted) and unfreshed. I haven't slept very well for the last 10 years and I feel exhausted and miserable every day. I'm also worried I may have sleep apnea. I'd like to have a sleep test done.

The doc will most likely agree that a sleep test is a good idea. S/he may ask you some questions. You need to listen to the questions carefully and answer the questions that the doc actually asks instead of telling the doc that you think the problem is caused by your brain trying to get the blood or oxygen back after a bad night.

If the doc asks you when you go to bed, you answer that question honestly. "About midnight."

If the doc asks how long it takes you to get to sleep after you go to bed, you answer than question honestly. "Several hours on a bad night."

If the doc asks whether you wake up with a headache, you answer that question honestly: "Not really, but I don't feel completely normal either." Or "I'm not sure."

If the doc asks you to describe how you feel during the day, you answer that question honestly: "I feel pretty bad during the daytime. I'm tired (or exhausted or fatigued). I find it more difficult to exercise than I used to, but I force myself to do it anyway."

If the doc asks you why you think you have OSA, you answer that question honestly: "I've read about it and I know I have some of the risk factors and I have some of the symptoms."

If the doc tells you that you have an insomnia problem, listen to the doc instead of arguing with him/her. Ask the doc what s/he thinks you should do in order to do to treat the insomnia. Be sure you understand exactly what the doc advised you to do. If the proposed treatment is not something you want to try, politely tell the doc that you'd rather try a different approach. But don't tell the doc his/her proposed treatment plan cannot or will not work because your real problem is not insomnia.

In other words, at tomorrow's appointment focus on (1) accurately and succinctly describing the symptoms of your sleep problem(s); (2) accurately and succinctly answering the questions the doc actually asks you; and (3) listening to what the doc wants you to try as a way of treating the sleep problems.

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Re: Do you ever feel lack of blood flow in brain when waking?

Post by robysue » Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:12 pm

Enchanter wrote:
robysue wrote:
Let's play a mind game for a minute: Suppose you had your own oximeter to use every night. And suppose it shows that your O2 levels stay relatively high all night long night after night. (Not all people with OSA experience signficant O2 desats.) What would you think then? You'd still be feeling the same way you're feeling now, but would you then change how you describe how you are feeling?
Well how could I change my description on how I feel when that is how I've ALWAYS said I have felt?
So if the hard cold scientific evidence shows that you are NOT experiencing O2 desats at night, you would still believe that the best way to describe your symptoms is to say that they're caused by your brain needing to recover from the O2 being sucked out of it every night?
Enchanter wrote:I'd think I have to exercise even more and try to become in the best shape I possibly could be in, and pray that it would get rid of my problem. So in other words, work harder and smarter. But it's hard to imagine that now... If I was able to get treated, working harder would be easier and more natural, if you will.
I am not asking what you would do in response to seeing data that indicates you do not desaturate at night. That's an entirely different question than the one I asked.

My question: Suppose you could scientifically prove to yourself that your very real problems are NOT the result of O2 desaturations. You are still feeling lousy, but you now know the oxygen is NOT being sucked out of your brain every night. Would you then start to think that you need to describe the symptoms in terms of something that makes sense given the data?
Enchanter wrote:I don't think I'd describe how I'm feeling. I'd say I feel my brain is fatigued when I wake up in the morning and I feel like it's not getting enough oxygen and blood. It's like if I hurt my ankle and the test showed no damage, I'd say my ankle is in pain. I'm firm and adamant.
It's not the same at all.

You are insisting the problem is that your brain is fatigued because your brain is not getting enough oxygen and blood. That is like insisting that your knee is broken because it hurts, when in reality the MCL in your knee is badly torn and causing the pain.

Rather than telling the doc that you've broken your knee, you need to focus on telling the doc the exact location of the pain (on the inside of the knee) and that you twisted the knee badly towards the outside during the fall as well as hitting the ground on the knee. An accurate description of the pain and the injury allows the doc to decide that an MRI to image the soft tissue of the MCL will need to be done instead of an x-ray to diagnose a broken knee cap. And once the MRI is done, a decision about how to repair the MCL can be done.

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Re: Do you ever feel lack of blood flow in brain when waking?

Post by Enchanter » Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:14 pm

robysue wrote:
Enchanter wrote:This is what I feel. I can't lie to my doctor and try to say it's something else. I'm not sure if it's oxygen or blood, but it's probably one of those two. When I wake up, I feel as if my brain is trying to get blood back.
No one is telling you to lie to your doctor.

We are telling you to stick to describing your symptoms as symptoms instead of trying to tell the doc what's causing your symptoms.

When you tell the doc that you are feeling awful (or weird or strange) because your brain is trying to get the blood back you are NOT describing your symptoms. You are telling the doc what you think the problem is and you're describing your theory in language that simply does not make sense medically speaking.

So yes, I believe that something that is physically real is going with you, your body, and your sleep. But right now you tend to vaguely describe your symptoms in language that is easy to misinterpret and then describe at length what you believe is causing your not very well described symptoms. And you're describing your theory about what is wrong with you in language that just does not make any medical sense.

At your doctor's appointment tomorrow, you need to describe your symptoms in language that accurately communicates the actual symptoms and how they physically make you feel.

I've read every post I've seen from you. And you know that I've carefully read a lot of them and I've made a lot of comments and asked a lot of questions. Here's my advice for what you need to tell the doc when you see him/her tomorrow:

Doc: Why did you come in today?

You: I don't sleep very well. Even when I get 8 hours of sleep I wake up feeling unrested (or tired or exhausted) and unfreshed. I haven't slept very well for the last 10 years and I feel exhausted and miserable every day. I'm also worried I may have sleep apnea. I'd like to have a sleep test done.

The doc will most likely agree that a sleep test is a good idea. S/he may ask you some questions. You need to listen to the questions carefully and answer the questions that the doc actually asks instead of telling the doc that you think the problem is caused by your brain trying to get the blood or oxygen back after a bad night.

If the doc asks you when you go to bed, you answer that question honestly. "About midnight."

If the doc asks how long it takes you to get to sleep after you go to bed, you answer than question honestly. "Several hours on a bad night."

If the doc asks whether you wake up with a headache, you answer that question honestly: "Not really, but I don't feel completely normal either." Or "I'm not sure."

If the doc asks you to describe how you feel during the day, you answer that question honestly: "I feel pretty bad during the daytime. I'm tired (or exhausted or fatigued). I find it more difficult to exercise than I used to, but I force myself to do it anyway."

If the doc asks you why you think you have OSA, you answer that question honestly: "I've read about it and I know I have some of the risk factors and I have some of the symptoms."

If the doc tells you that you have an insomnia problem, listen to the doc instead of arguing with him/her. Ask the doc what s/he thinks you should do in order to do to treat the insomnia. Be sure you understand exactly what the doc advised you to do. If the proposed treatment is not something you want to try, politely tell the doc that you'd rather try a different approach. But don't tell the doc his/her proposed treatment plan cannot or will not work because your real problem is not insomnia.

In other words, at tomorrow's appointment focus on (1) accurately and succinctly describing the symptoms of your sleep problem(s); (2) accurately and succinctly answering the questions the doc actually asks you; and (3) listening to what the doc wants you to try as a way of treating the sleep problems.

Yes, you have asked me a lot of questions. Thanks for trying to understand.

I think I should keep it simple and accurate. I am going to bring my paper though just in case he asks me more details. Now keep in mind this doctor seems pretty nice and is known to be good with 2nd opinions. So I'm hoping he knows his stuff when it comes to my situation. Or at least has a good idea.

Hey, do you have any suggestions regarding breathing? You did mention a type of yoga.. now yoga can be very expensive. Keep in mind that when I try mindfulness mediation I get very frustrated because I can't really breathe without forcing it, especially when I focus on it. I even start sweating and feel dizzy when i try to breathe through my nose. There may be times when I'm breathing easier, but it's not consistent. I understand you're supposed to breathe though your belly and I know exercises such as placing pressure on your belly. However it's easier SAID than done. Even when I am breathing through my belly, I'm breathing through both my chest and abdomen. Hard to NOT breathe through chest.

So there is a small chance, that this has something to do with my energy levels and maybe just maybe it affects my sleeping. If you know anything about this, let me know. I am open, but at the same time there are certain things that I know I don't have.
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Re: Do you ever feel lack of blood flow in brain when waking?

Post by Julie » Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:24 pm

Sounds to me like you're trying too hard, wanting perfection of every little aspect of every breathe, etc. Back off a bit, take a more regular, relaxed breath rather than striving for the ultimate each time - you may in fact be hyperventilating and that will certainly cause you to feel lightheaded (however you choose to describe that). Don't try to 'conquer' every little thing every moment of whatever or wherever you do and are... let life happen to you a little, trust a bit more that nature is pretty good at taking care of itself and you - don't make everything a confrontation, or something you must have the complete answer to right away. Meditation shouldn't be a contest, but a way to clear the air, to relax you, not ask for giant efforts. You don't have to be perfect, you don't have to 'win' every minute of the day or even every day at all... life should be a little bit fun sometimes, or at least not so hard! Maybe you've forgotten that?

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Re: Do you ever feel lack of blood flow in brain when waking?

Post by Enchanter » Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:44 pm

Julie wrote:Sounds to me like you're trying too hard, wanting perfection of every little aspect of every breathe, etc. Back off a bit, take a more regular, relaxed breath rather than striving for the ultimate each time - you may in fact be hyperventilating and that will certainly cause you to feel lightheaded (however you choose to describe that). Don't try to 'conquer' every little thing every moment of whatever or wherever you do and are... let life happen to you a little, trust a bit more that nature is pretty good at taking care of itself and you - don't make everything a confrontation, or something you must have the complete answer to right away. Meditation shouldn't be a contest, but a way to clear the air, to relax you, not ask for giant efforts. You don't have to be perfect, you don't have to 'win' every minute of the day or even every day at all... life should be a little bit fun sometimes, or at least not so hard! Maybe you've forgotten that?
Maybe. Now you mentioned hyperventilating. Could hyperventilating be what's making me think my brain is losing oxygen? Also could hyperventilating cause sleep problems?
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Re: Do you ever feel lack of blood flow in brain when waking?

Post by palerider » Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:52 pm

Enchanter wrote:Maybe. Now you mentioned hyperventilating. Could hyperventilating be what's making me think my brain is losing oxygen?
it can definitely make you feel light headed/woozy, not because you have too little oxygen though, obviously.

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Re: Do you ever feel lack of blood flow in brain when waking?

Post by Enchanter » Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:45 pm

palerider wrote:
Enchanter wrote:Maybe. Now you mentioned hyperventilating. Could hyperventilating be what's making me think my brain is losing oxygen?
it can definitely make you feel light headed/woozy, not because you have too little oxygen though, obviously.
But you would be getting less oxygen technically, right? The whole point of breathing is to get in oxygen.
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Re: Do you ever feel lack of blood flow in brain when waking?

Post by Krelvin » Tue Apr 21, 2015 11:10 pm

Enchanter wrote:But you would be getting less oxygen technically, right? The whole point of breathing is to get in oxygen.
Hyperventilating causes you to get too much oxygen and results in the feeling you cannot breath, many times causing you to breath harder just making it worse.

A paper bag can help in showing you that you are in fact breathing and and reduces the amount of oxygen by rebreathing some of the co2 to relieve that feeling.

Many people have done it, I've done it, can be down right scary... But when you relax and slow down your breathing you get over it.
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Re: Do you ever feel lack of blood flow in brain when waking?

Post by Enchanter » Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:09 am

Krelvin wrote:
Enchanter wrote:But you would be getting less oxygen technically, right? The whole point of breathing is to get in oxygen.
Hyperventilating causes you to get too much oxygen and results in the feeling you cannot breath, many times causing you to breath harder just making it worse.

A paper bag can help in showing you that you are in fact breathing and and reduces the amount of oxygen by rebreathing some of the co2 to relieve that feeling.

Many people have done it, I've done it, can be down right scary... But when you relax and slow down your breathing you get over it.

Right. So my problem is getting too much oxygen. I knew it was some kind of oxygen inbalance though.
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Re: Do you ever feel lack of blood flow in brain when waking?

Post by robysue » Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:19 am

Enchanter wrote: Hey, do you have any suggestions regarding breathing? You did mention a type of yoga.. now yoga can be very expensive.
Yoga can be expensive. Or very cheap.

For breathing? I'd start out with the following relatively cheap thing: 10 minutes of yoga relaxation. I'd suggest that you get yourself a yoga relaxation CD. Not a meditation CD, a relaxation CD. One that I've used in the past that I really like is Guided Yoga Relaxations (CD) by Rolf Sovik available from the link for about $15 + shipping. Having a CD will help you understand what you're trying to do in a yoga relaxation, but it's not strictly necessary.

In a yoga relaxation you spend about 10 minutes in your choice of one of two basic poses: Savasana or corpse pose or Crocodile pose.

Here's a description of how a basic 10 minute yoga relaxation "works" if you don't have a CD to guide you:

In savasana (corpse) pose, you lie down on the floor on your back with a small pillow under your neck if you need it to be more comfortable. It's also ok to put a pillow or bolster under your knees if lying flat on your back with no support under your knees is uncomfortable. You want to be very, very comfortable. You want your feet spread out just a bit---about hip width apart or a bit further. You want your arms down by your sides, but about 6-12 inches away from your body. It's also ok to use a lightweight small blanket on top of you to help keep you warm.

In crocodile pose, you lie down on the floor on your stomach with your arms crossed and your forehead resting comfortably on top of the two crossed arms. Your legs should be straight out and a bit separated from each other---the feet should be about hip width apart (or a bit wider than hip width if that's more comfortable). It doesn't matter if the feet turn in or out. Or if one turns in and the other turns out. You want to be comfortable. You might want a very small, thin cushion between your arms and your forehead if you have very bony arms like I do. It's also ok to put a lightweight blanket on top of your back if you're cold.

And once you're in a comfortable position, you just allow yourself to breathe without forcing the breathing. If you are using a tape, allow your mind follow the instructions on the guided relaxation. Most of the time with a guided relaxation CD you start with focusing on how the breathing feels without trying to control it. And then the CD will tell you to focus your attention for a few breaths on individual parts of the body as you consciously relax them.

If you don't have a tape or don't want to use a tape, you start by simply allowing your mind to focus on your breathing without trying to control your breathing. It's critical to understand that you don't force anything. Rather you notice what's going on. So you notice how your breathing is without judging it and without trying to change it: Is it regular? Is it labored? Is it from the belly or is it from the chest? Are you breathing through your nose or through your mouth? Is your breathing even? Is it ragged? Is it slow and regular? Is it slow and irregular? Is it fast and regular? Is it fast and irregular? Is it deep or shallow? Are the exhalations and inhalations about the same length? Or are the inhalations longer than the exhalations? Or are the exhalations longer than the inhalations? Can you feel how the air feels cool when you inhale and warm when you exhale? Can you feel how the cool air flows through your nose and down your throat when you inhale? Can you feel how the warm air flows from your throat and through your nose when you exhale? You don't try to control any aspect of your breathing and you don't try to force the breathing to be something it is not. You simply notice what the breathing is doing. You try to focus your whole mind on what your breathing feels like without trying to control the breathing and without judging the breathing. And as you are focusing on how your breathing feels, you allow your whole body to relax into the floor.

At some point allow your mind's focus to change from how does the breathing feel? to how does the floor feels against your body? Again, do this without trying to force anything. Work on noticing what parts of your body are supported firmly by the floor. Notice what parts are not resting on the floor. And you allow yourself to feel your muscles relaxing. If your mind tends to wander, you don't worry about that. Just bring your mind's focus back to paying attention to what the breath is doing without forcing anything after you notice that your mind is wandering off to something else. And then return to noticing how your body and the floor are interacting with each other.

If/when the time feels right, focus your whole attention on one part of your body at a time and focus on getting the muscles in that particular part to really relax fully. Start with your head. Spend a few breaths focusing all your attention on relaxing the muscles in the top of your head. And then relax the back of your neck. And then relax your forehead. And then relax your jaws. Continue all the way down your body: Consciously relax your shoulders, your arms, your hands, your torso, your hips, your legs, your feet. When you are consciously relaxing a given body part, focus your attention on the body part and just let the breathing "be". In other words, let the breathing take care of itself and don't worry about whether it's "good" breathing or not ...

Ideally after several minutes your whole body should be very relaxed. Your muscles should be relaxed. Your breathing should be your natural relaxed, resting, but awake breathing. Once you've relaxed, your breathing will probably be more regular that it was when you first started the yoga relaxation. And it may be a bit deeper than it was when you first started the relaxation. If ten minutes is not yet up, then allow yourself the pleasure of feeling how relaxed your body is and how the breathing feels without judging how the breathing feels.

It's easier to do this with a guided relaxation tape since you've got the external voice telling you what to focus your mind on. But if you want to try it without a guided tape, it can help to put some very soothing, very quiet music on. The music should NOT have words that you understand because then you'll start focusing on the words in the music instead of focusing on how your body feels physically and how your breath feels.

As for the choice between savasana or crocodile pose: It really doesn't matter which pose you use. When you are first learning how to do this yoga relaxation, you should stick with the pose that is most natural feeling and most comfortable for you. For most people, that's savasana, but some people have a strong preference for crocodile. It is easier to feel where the breath is coming from in crocodile since your stomach is against the floor and if you're doing diaphragmatic breathing, the diaphragm has to push against the floor in a noticeable (but NOT uncomfortable) way. If you're trying to train yourself to do more diaphragmatic breathing, crocodile pose helps you learn what it feels like more easily than savasana does. But if you find that you are having to force the breath in crocodile, then it's far better to stick with savasana.
Enchanted wrote:Keep in mind that when I try mindfulness mediation I get very frustrated because I can't really breathe without forcing it, especially when I focus on it. I even start sweating and feel dizzy when i try to breathe through my nose. There may be times when I'm breathing easier, but it's not consistent. I understand you're supposed to breathe though your belly and I know exercises such as placing pressure on your belly. However it's easier SAID than done. Even when I am breathing through my belly, I'm breathing through both my chest and abdomen. Hard to NOT breathe through chest.
You are working too hard to force your breathing to be something that it's not.

The point of focusing on the breathing is to help relax yourself. And you can't relax if you are fighting your own breathing.

You have to learn to relax and simply breathe without judging whether your breathing measures up to some arbitrary standard you've read or heard about in a meditation or yoga book/website/class.

In order to be comfortable doing any kind of yoga or meditation, you need to get to know how your own body feels and functions at rest. The breathing we do when we are quietly relaxed, but not asleep, is not the same as the kind of breathing we need to do when we're doing strenuous exercise. Your body has its own natural, relaxed breathing rhythm and style. And you need to learn what that rhythm and style is. As you learn what your own natural relaxed breathing rhythm and style feels like, you will begin to understand how to work with that style rather than fight it. And, eventually, you will learn how to deepen your relaxed breathing and slow it down and make it very regular. But that comes more from experience with relaxation rather than a conscious effort to change your breathing style.

Enchanted wrote:I even start sweating and feel dizzy when i try to breathe through my nose. There may be times when I'm breathing easier, but it's not consistent. I understand you're supposed to breathe though your belly and I know exercises such as placing pressure on your belly. However it's easier SAID than done. Even when I am breathing through my belly, I'm breathing through both my chest and abdomen. Hard to NOT breathe through chest.
As I said before, you need to learn to relax and simply breathe without judging whether your breathing measures up to some arbitrary standard you've read or heard about in a meditation or yoga book/website/class. But right now it seems as though you are caught up in a frantic effort to compare your breathing to an external standard: It should be nasal breathing. It should be from the belly. But since yours is not either of those things right now, you wind up fighting your own breathing rather than working with your breath.

Since you can't breath through your nose comfortably, then breath through your mouth. Yes, nose breathing is supposed to be better, but if you have to fight your own body to breath through your nose, then you are better off breathing comfortably through your mouth. Or breath through your nose part of the time and breath through your mouth part of the time if that's what works best.

Likewise, diaphragmatic (belly) breathing is deeper and more regular than chest breathing. But we live in a culture where chest breathing is common place and a lot of people have real trouble learning how to breathe from the belly. So since diaphragmatic breathing doesn't come natural to you, don't get hung up on it. It's more important to learn how to relax your breathing as best you can. Because you can't relax your body if you can't relax your breathing.

As you learn how to really relax your body, you may find that your relaxed wake breathing starts to naturally engage the diaphragm more easily. But there's no need to force yourself to breath diaphragmatically if it feels totally unnatural to you.

In other words, the best thing you can do as far as breathing goes is to spend some time relaxing with your body and learning to enjoy how your body feels and breathes when it is totally relaxed. Once you learn how to use your existing breathing style to help relax your body and mind, you'll be able to use breathing techniques to help deal with things like anxiety.

So there is a small chance, that this has something to do with my energy levels and maybe just maybe it affects my sleeping. If you know anything about this, let me know. I am open, but at the same time there are certain things that I know I don't have.
Everyone breathes or they die.

And everyone who doesn't have a serious lung condition that affects their daytime breathing has a breathing style that comes "natural" to them. People with healthy lungs don't have to fight for each and every breath. If a person with healthy lungs is actively doing something that requires a lot of thought but does not require a specific breathing pattern, the breathing takes care of itself: If you're cooking a meal, you're not spending every breath thinking about your breathing. If you are doing your laundry, you're not spending every breath thinking about your breathing. The point is: For a person with healthy lungs, breathing is a natural thing.

Relaxation, however, is NOT a natural thing for many of us. Relaxation, as my hubby teases me, requires a lot of hard work for some of us. And relaxation is NOT the same as doing something that is "fun" but physically exhausting. But relaxation is as important for recharging the batteries as a good diet. Or proper exercise. Or good sleep.

You have thrown yourself into a host of daytime activities that you see as improving your physical fitness: You lift weights. You mountain bike. You eat a healthy diet. But you seem to have a hard time just plain chilling out and not worrying about things. Conscious relaxation helps control run-of=the-mill daily stress and anxiety---the kind of stress and anxiety everybody has to deal with.

Conscious relaxation and learning how to use your breathing to help settle your body is not a magic bullet: It's not going to drastically increase your energy levels since you are not sleeping very well. Conscious relaxation and learning how to breath more naturally (for you) is not going to fix your sleep problems. But conscious relaxation is likely to help you feel less stressed out during the daytime. And understanding how your breathing naturally feels when your body is at rest and deeply relaxed may help you gain more control of your breathing when you are doing your heavy exercise. You may learn to read your body better, and you may then understand that some of what you are experiencing when you exercise is just your body saying, "Enough heavy physical activity for now; the muscles and body are ready to do some well earned whole body relaxation."

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Re: Do you ever feel lack of blood flow in brain when waking?

Post by robysue » Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:44 am

Enchanter wrote:
palerider wrote:
Enchanter wrote:Maybe. Now you mentioned hyperventilating. Could hyperventilating be what's making me think my brain is losing oxygen?
it can definitely make you feel light headed/woozy, not because you have too little oxygen though, obviously.
But you would be getting less oxygen technically, right? The whole point of breathing is to get in oxygen.
Technically speaking, getting oxygen into the system is only one half of the "whole point" of breathing. It's equally important to get the excess CO2 out of the body, and breathing is how we get rid of the excess CO2.

And it's the CO2 levels in the blood that actually trigger the physiological need to inhale.

And that's why hyperventilating can lead to the feeling that one is having trouble breathing: When you hyperventilate, you blow off too much CO2 too quickly. Which messes with the breathing cycle's trigger. Which makes it feel as though you're fighting to breathe because you're consciously trying to inhale when the body's CO2 levels say you don't need to inhale.

And that's why the old trick of breathing into a paper bag when you're hyperventilating helps: It helps to slow your breathing down and deepen it because you're rebreathing just a bit of the CO2 you are blowing off with the hyperventilation. The rebreathing of the tiny bit of CO2 helps to increase the CO2 levels back up to where they're supposed to be for triggering normal breathing. Once the CO2 trigger is back in working order, the breathing slows down and normalizes and the feeling that you can't breathe starts to wane.

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Re: Do you ever feel lack of blood flow in brain when waking?

Post by Enchanter » Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:34 am

Robysue, I will read over your whole post in a bit. But I saw where you said to just breathe and not judge. But that is what I tried to do. I'd just sit there and notice myself. But the only thing that came about was I would notice how I wasn't good at it and notice how bad it made me feel. It would be great if I could notice how much it's helping me. All I noticed was that I couldn't inhale and exhale evenly or easily, no matter how much I noticed. It's a vicious cycle. See some people all they have to do is take notice of their breath and they start breathing great.
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