Brand new to board... a few questions before I get my CPAP

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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archangle
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Re: Brand new to board... a few questions before I get my CPAP

Post by archangle » Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:56 pm

hifiaudio wrote:OK just got back from my appt with the machine. I am going to be trying the Resmed Swift FX first. My AHI score was 39.2. Gotta go figure out how to get the software to read that card, etc.
Welcome. Sorry you had to join us.

I STRONGLY suggest you get SleepyHead and start checking your results immediately. CPAP can make your centrals worse. Don't put too much faith in your doctor. This is the day of big box store style assembly line medicine. It's double important if you are having 70 second long central apneas. Lots of the assembly line doctors only look at the count of apneas, not the duration.

However, having said that, don't be too scared of centrals, just check on them.

Check the Useful Links in my signature line for help on SleepyHead and some other things.

Definitely get a copy of your sleep study.
Pugsy wrote:The PR S1 560 machine is a great machine in all regards except one...it can't treat centrals at all and in fact it ignores them.
We should probably clarify "ignores" in that statement. The PRS1 Auto will detect and record the centrals, but it will not raise the pressure in response to a central apnea.

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hifiaudio
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Re: Brand new to board... a few questions before I get my CPAP

Post by hifiaudio » Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:43 pm

Thanks for the links. I will check them out. I assume this Sleepyhead software gives much more pertinent or complete info than the sleep mapper software/app that Respironics offers?

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SleepDisturbed
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Re: Brand new to board... a few questions before I get my CPAP

Post by SleepDisturbed » Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:10 pm

hifiaudio wrote:Thanks for the links. I will check them out. I assume this Sleepyhead software gives much more pertinent or complete info than the sleep mapper software/app that Respironics offers?
Yes, Sleepyhead is superior in all ways, is available for PC, Mac, and Linux platforms, and is free.

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hifiaudio
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Re: Brand new to board... a few questions before I get my CPAP

Post by hifiaudio » Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:25 am

Alright... had my first night with the machine, and there were good and bad things. The good... I was actually pretty comfortable with the Swift FX mask. At times it felt almost like I had nothing on... and other times I wanted to yank it off. But for the most part, I found it relatively comfortable. The bad part is that I was not really able to go to sleep, despite not being terribly bothered by the mask itself. I think quite a few times I dozed off and then either opened my mouth and the noise or my wife nudging my woke me right back up, or possibly the central apneas that I exhibited during my titration that the tech said would wake me right after I dozed reared their ugly head as well. I guess I need to get some info on straps to keep my mouth closed as mentioned earlier. It doesn't open until I am just about asleep. Very annoying. I fought this until around 4:30 am until I gave up and decided that I will have to have something hold my mouth closed or even going to sleep won't help much.

I did download Sleepyhead and have it working with the imported data. How should I display that here (and does it have any personally identifiable info in the file somewhere that I need to remove?)?

I still had quite a few apneas I think... I am not great at reading the data though. Some of it is also from when I just put the mask on while watching TV earlier in the night for an hour or so to help acclimation.

I can either do a screen grab or just attach the file. I assume its just the files from the "P126073236BD9" folder that I see on the SD card?

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Pugsy
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Re: Brand new to board... a few questions before I get my CPAP

Post by Pugsy » Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:31 am

For how to post images as well as some discussion on which graphs to show (we don't need all of them) take a look here
viewtopic/t103468/Need-help-with-screen-shots.html
https://sleep.tnet.com/reference/tips/imgur

Your mouth may need a gentle reminder to not drop open (I am assuming that the nose is clear and not causing a need for the mouth to open) in the form of a chin strap....at least for now until it maybe learns to stay shut all the time.

There are store bought chin straps but you can also just use something like an ace bandage to see if it helps or not.

There is no personally identifiable information that would show up if you posted and image of your Sleepyhead report beyond maybe your name at the very top of the report and if that is a problem...just use your screen id or first name or something that doesn't tie to your last name...though to be honest I don't think anyone pores over these SleepyHead reports to try to glean your name. You can name the user profile anything you want and there is no need to input all the other stuff that SH asks for beyond the time zone...but that stuff doesn't show up anyway on the reports.
I have my first name on mine and sometimes I just crop that little section of the report off and sometimes I forget and leave it.

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Re: Brand new to board... a few questions before I get my CPAP

Post by hifiaudio » Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:55 am

OK here is my first shot at an Imgur upload link... anything before the 22:30 range was me just trying it out while watching TV, working, etc.



Image

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Pugsy
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Re: Brand new to board... a few questions before I get my CPAP

Post by Pugsy » Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:04 am

Here's a little hint about using imgur codes so that the image isn't so big and still let's people click on it if they need to.
Before copying the image address....click on "Large thumbnail" just below the addresses...this will change the addresses a little and then copy that last line in the list of addresses. You will then get a smaller image that allows clicking on it to make it a more readable size but sometimes "large thumbnail" is big enough and we don't need to change the size.

In terms of your last night's report....once you have some solid blocks of sleep (for sure sleep) then let's see what the CAs show....CAs are Respironics term for centrals and if these centrals don't reduce....this machine is NOT going to work for you. It will take care of the obstructive apnea events just fine but it can't do anything about the centrals other than tell you that you have them and this is way to many to have.

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Re: Brand new to board... a few questions before I get my CPAP

Post by hifiaudio » Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:08 am

CA = meaning "clear airway"? so all of those are centrals?

My mask technician seemed quite concerned about all of my centrals, which are pretty much unexplained (no head trauma, etc... at least not that I remember! )

The doc said very little about them, though. Perhaps I should see a neurologist and get an MRI or something.

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Pugsy
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Re: Brand new to board... a few questions before I get my CPAP

Post by Pugsy » Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:24 am

hifiaudio wrote:CA = meaning "clear airway"? so all of those are centrals?
Yep....Pretty much that.
Resmed elected to call them "centrals"
Respironics elected to call them "clear airway"
both mean cessation of breathing but the airway is open
obstructive sleep apnea means cessation of breathing but the cause is the airway is physically blocked by collapse/sagging airway tissues.

The main problem with what these machines report is that they can't tell if a person is awake or asleep and often awake/semi awake breathing irregularities will be flagged by mistake. We don't breathe the same when we are awake...our breathing is much more irregular and we often pause our breathing and don't realize it.

Hold your breath for 10 second...that's technically a 10 second central. There is no air flow but the airway is open.
All apnea events (central, obstructive, hyponea) have to last at least 10 seconds and have a certain amount of reduction in air flow to earn a flagged event. That's why sometimes we see reductions in flow that look to us like they should get a hyponea flag but they don't because the reduction in flow isn't large enough.

It's not uncommon for first night reports to include a LOT of awake/semi awake breathing because they don't sleep so great the first few nights. So we don't automatically push the panic button when we see this number of centrals reported on the first few nights...it might be some awake/semi awake stuff getting flagged.
A few centrals here and there is no big deal. We all have them and it's entirely normal to have a handful but not this many. Sleep onset centrals are normal..I have them on occasion but I might only see 1 or 2 all night...not 10 per hour and all night long.

I don't know if you had a large number of centrals during the diagnostic sleep study or if these centrals just popped up during the titration sleep study. If they only popped up during the titration sleep study then maybe they will reduce on their own with a bit of time after the body adjusts to cpap pressure but if they were present in large numbers on the diagnostic sleep study then the pressure didn't cause them and I have no idea why this APAP machine was even considered because it will never be able to deal with a large number of centrals beyond tell you that they occurred.
There's a lot that we don't have in terms of information here...like exactly what did those sleep studies say was the problem and if you haven't got copies of the studies I strongly suggest that you get them.

How many centrals are too many? It depends on a lot of things but generally 5 per hour or large clusters that cause desats or sleep disruptions but maybe the overall per hour average is low but the clustering is the problem.
So a lot to be evaluated besides just a number per hour.

Did you discuss the centrals with the doctor?

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Re: Brand new to board... a few questions before I get my CPAP

Post by hifiaudio » Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:31 am

No the doc didnt really go over them, and the actual DR. was in the room very little for my review. I was peppering his assistant / nurse with a million questions and didnt bring up the centrals specifically. It was my conversation with the mask technician where the centrals came up.

A big reason I had the in lab study was because my home study showed a ton of centrals. 48 I think. I do have readouts / summaries of the report. I can try to scan it in and upload that too.

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Re: Brand new to board... a few questions before I get my CPAP

Post by Pugsy » Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:35 am

The home study....done without cpap I assume?
Did you wear some sort of chest belt around your thoracic region during the home study?
Any sort of leads around the eyes, forehead (these would be EEG leads)?
Or was it just a pulse oximeter attached to your finger tip and a little cannula thing in the nostrils?
Home studies have varying levels of thoroughness...from just the basics to almost like what is done in a sleep lab setting.

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If you want to try the Eclipse mask and want a special promo code to get a little off the price...send me a private message.

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Re: Brand new to board... a few questions before I get my CPAP

Post by hifiaudio » Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:39 am

Home study had stomach strap, chest strap, finger pulse, and two things in my nose. No eyes, forehead. I guess the super high centrals on the home and the incompleteness of what it measures is why they brought me in for an in house study, and why insurance finally paid for that after denying it the first time.

And correct, home study was done without CPAP. The first portion of the in lab study was also without CPAP.

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Pugsy
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Re: Brand new to board... a few questions before I get my CPAP

Post by Pugsy » Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:51 am

hifiaudio wrote:The first portion of the in lab study was also without CPAP.
This would be what we call a split night study in a sleep lab. First part without cpap so the diagnostic portion and the second part using the cpap.

If the first part without cpap documents a large number of centrals...that's central sleep apnea.
You can also have a diagnosis of obstructive sleep apnea at this time also if there were enough obstructive events...
so maybe a diagnosis of complex sleep apnea since both obstructive and centrals are present.

When someone has centrals pop up only when cpap is added...that's complex sleep apnea but the centrals were caused by the addition of cpap pressure. It happens to a relatively small number of people who have only the OSA diagnosis initially. Sometimes these centrals will go away on their own when the body adjusts to cpap pressure but sometimes it doesn't and a different machine is needed...one that can deal with both the obstructive stuff and the central stuff.

I don't know your insurance requirements for moving up to a machine that will adequately treat centrals (if you have enough to need treating and it sounds like you do) so I don't know the reasoning behind giving you APAP now if centrals are the primary problem...there's a lot going on here that you need to get an understanding of just so you know what the plan is (if there is a plan) because my gut tells me that you are going to need a plan.

On your paperwork that you do have....the home study...do you have the number of centrals and/or the per hour average?
On the split night study...do you have any of the paperwork for it?

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Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
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I may have to RISE but I refuse to SHINE.

If you want to try the Eclipse mask and want a special promo code to get a little off the price...send me a private message.

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SleepDisturbed
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Re: Brand new to board... a few questions before I get my CPAP

Post by SleepDisturbed » Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:22 am

Is the doc you are dealing with a sleep doc? Or a GP/Primary care type.

If I were you I would get copies of all lab results, especially that in-lab test, and see what they diagnosed me with, pronto. If the diagnoses is Central or Complex Sleep apnea you are wasting your time with the machine they gave you.

A chin strap won't lock your mouth closed. It helped me, over a period of about six months, "train" myself to keep my mouth closed.

If the Swift FX exhaust is bothering you or your wife, a Resmed P10 might be a better nasal pillow mask for you.

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Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments: 9.6 - 15 Pressure on APAP. EPR 2 / Sleepyhead software
What I lack in verbosity, I make up in brevity.

hifiaudio
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Re: Brand new to board... a few questions before I get my CPAP

Post by hifiaudio » Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:36 am

Does any part of that readout or software indicate whether I am sleeping or not? Or can that only be done with the head wires / leads?