cognitive memory difficulties caused by Silent strokes

[tiredandscared]

I was thinking earlier. Is it possible that residual or non improving cognitive symptoms in sleep apnea patients could be a result of silent stroke? Silent strokes are basically minor strokes with subtle symptoms. Changes in memory and motor function that are subtle enough to not warrant an emergency. Sleep apnea is clear risk factor for silent strokes. Thoughts?

[Julie]

Anything is possible... and if you try hard enough you'll imagine that you have (and/or have had) all kinds of nasty things, but what's the point? You haven't yet gotten the benefit of Cpap to speak of so continue (on and on) trying to measure your abilities from the viewpoint of UNtreated apnea, driving yourself to exhaustion and anxiety, neither of which will help Cpap once you really become consistent with it. If you really can't relax and wait for Cpap to kick in then see your doctor, but we aren't doctors and our speculations will not change your experiences, just add to your worries. And TIA's either do have some signs doctors can pick up on, however minor, but are unlikely to pass by and only leave cognitive deficits... or much more likely physical ones, leaving your brain intact.

[BlackSpinner]

Unless you have been actually diagnosed with this don't focus on this.

Besides which the brain can be retrained. It is amazing how much can be recovered with therapy. My mother had many small strokes and every time went to therapy and recovered a lot of function.

Exercise your brain and body to get the function back.

[kteague]

Anything is possible. In that case the area of the brain affected would have to be in some way related to storage or processing of memory. Years ago by CT Scan it was discovered I had several small spots on my brain termed vascular ischemic lesions. While I have little doubt that these were caused by my sleep apnea desats, the neurologist said these areas were not the cause of my symptoms. And he must have been right, because treating my sleep issues improved my memory, and those spots are permanent. The best way to know for certain is to rule out other causes. Unless one has therapeutically addressed their sleep issues and ruled out things like medication side effect it would be hard to assign full responsibility to silent strokes or any other neurological condition for memory problems. The unknown can seem so big. Seems for me the least overwhelming way to deal with any problem is to systematically deal with known factors then see what's left to deal with. And just maybe the first known factor dealt with will be the answer. How much time and worry might be spared!

[tiredandscared]

I thought about due it to an unrelated thread of thoughts. Ive been having this finger weakness in my right hand(the two lower digits). First i thought it was carpal tunnel syndrome or ullnar nerve entrapment. None of it matched. Looked at more ambiguous less common causes nope no matches. Then I found a clinical case from south korea describing the exact same symptoms. The symptomology was the a full match. Turns out he had a silent stroke in the a motoric function area of his brain. Sleep apnea is a primary reason for it. And I'm pretty sure i have sleep apnea. I know it sounds crazy and overly vigilant. But it makes sense. And im sure alot of people who dont improve have a higher frequency of silent strokes. Theyre even putting depressions down to silent strokes.

[Julie]

Please don't take this wrong, but what is wrong with you! If you have a problem with your hand, see a doctor!

Not some Korean paper you came across somewhere on the net!

There are gazillions of papers out there and you will find millions that cover every symptom known to man and will overlap all over the place... and a grab bag of any will look similar to SOMETHING someone had at some time... Are you really enjoying this in some way? Maybe you want attention, but this isn't the way to get it!

[tiredandscared]

Not really. GPs in my country are generally terrible so im reluctant to see a doctor here. Unless you have cancer growths sticking out of your ass theyll basically send you home. The only way to get to a specialist is through a remittal. Unless you have money and know of a private practice that is serious it takes months to get treatment or even just somone to examine you. I just want to know if anyone else experienced something similar due to sleep apnea. It would make it alot easier to handle. And those case descriptions and one or two questions on sleep apnea are the only cases ive found on it.. Not looking for attention just experience. I thought it was relevant to sleep apnea.

[Punchyandtired]

Cognitive issues were what led me on this last round of doctors where i discovered the sleep apnea and in the course pf testing, I saw a neurologist, had a brain MRI and a carotid US and was discharged from the neurologist. So I assume that means no strokes since my brain MRI and the US were both normal.

[Julie]

We've already told you - and you're aware on your own - that OSA brings on cognitive difficulties most of the time. Why bring in TIA's to confuse things? Sure some of us may have had them, known or otherwise, but so what? If it makes you feel less alone to be going through all this, well you're certainly not alone with it, but find some way to relax for now because you're not achieving a darn thing with this tangent. We're all in the same boat, you know, to support each other, not hold the hands of a few who are looking for trouble rather than making an effort to get things under control. Would you like a litany of my problems? Someone one else's?

And what country are you living in, if it's not a secret?

[tiredandscared]

Cognitive issues were what led me on this last round of doctors where i discovered the sleep apnea and in the course pf testing, I saw a neurologist, had a brain MRI and a carotid US and was discharged from the neurologist. So I assume that means no strokes since my brain MRI and the US were both normal.

they usually dont appear as strokes. Just small cerebo vascular glitches. Theyre small enough for doctors to have to look for them.

[tiredandscared]

We've already told you - and you're aware on your own - that OSA brings on cognitive dificulties most of the time. Why bring in TIA's to confuse things? Sure some of us may have had them, known or otherwise, but so what? If it makes you feel less alone to be going through all this, well you're certainly not alone with it, but find some way to relax for now because you're not achieving a darn thing with this tangent. We're all in the same boat, you know, to support each other, not hold the hands of a few who are looking for trouble rather than making an effort to get things under control. Would you like a litany of my problems? Someone one else's?

And what country are you living in, if it's not a secret?

You're misunderstanding my purpose for posting on this one. I wanted to create a general discussion. I also mentioned the hand thing as a side issue to see whether anyone else experienced it. Because its probably interrelated with TIA. as TIA is to OSA. I thought that it would create a discussion I could learn from. I live in northern europe.

[Punchyandtired]

From wikipedia:
"The diagnosis of a silent stroke is usually made as an incidental finding (by chance) of various neuroimaging techniques. Silent strokes may be detected by:

Magnetic resonance imaging (MRI)[44][45]
Computerized axial tomography (CAT scan)[46][47][48]
Transcranial Doppler ultrasonography (TCD), which measures cerebral blood flow velocity (CBFV) in the large intracranial arteries in the brain, has been shown in various studies to be an effective tool to diagnose children with sickle cell anemia at increased risk of having an initial or recurrent silent stroke. The narrowing of these arteries which is a risk factor for cerebral infarction, is characterized by an increased velocity of blood flow.[49]"

I had MRI and Transcranial doppler. No strokes.

(I forgot to mention the transcranial doppler, which came before the carotid US)

[Julie]

You don't KNOW what caused your hand 'thing' or what it really is, nor do you seem to care about getting a diagnosis or prognosis (and that's scary, because you can't know what other systems might be involved).

[tiredandscared]

You don't KNOW what caused your hand 'thing' or what it really is, nor do you seem to care about getting a diagnosis or prognosis (and that's scary, because you can't know what other systems might be involved).

Generally from experience I have low confidence in most doctors. Gps are the worst(ruled out most of the common issues). Specialists are a hit or miss. Im going to switch over to a GP that isnt terrible at his/her job. In the mean time im researching about that and cognitive issues related to OSA and am interested in hearing from people with similar issues. It would be interesting to explore the relationship between TIA and residual cognitive symptoms. I think if most doctors were competent theyd look for Ischemic abnormalities to get a better idea of how to treat post OSA issues.

[BlackSpinner]

You don't KNOW what caused your hand 'thing' or what it really is, nor do you seem to care about getting a diagnosis or prognosis (and that's scary, because you can't know what other systems might be involved).

Generally from experience I have low confidence in most doctors. Gps are the worst(ruled out most of the common issues). Specialists are a hit or miss. Im going to switch over to a GP that isnt terrible at his/her job. In the mean time im researching about that and cognitive issues related to OSA and am interested in hearing from people with similar issues. It would be interesting to explore the relationship between TIA and residual cognitive symptoms. I think if most doctors were competent theyd look for Ischemic abnormalities to get a better idea of how to treat post OSA issues.

Correlation is not causation. It is very very difficult to decipher relationships. Sleep deprivation alone can feel like brain damage.