New here with questions of course

[Chris333]

I appreciate all the help. It seems like I've had the worst nights of sleep since being told I have a sleep disorder. First it was the sleep doc calling while I was sleeping to make an appointment. Then it was running around to get my machine(s) while I'd usually be sleeping. It is hard to go to the doc because they are open while I sleep.

Before all this sometimes I would sleep for 12 hours straight. Sometimes only 6 hours. It has only been the last year I've been tired during the day.

The only medication I'm on is for my Thyroid and it is one very small pill I take when I wake up each day. And within the last month I started taking 3mg of dual release melatonin before bed. The first night it helped a lot and now I can't tell the difference.

I hate going to sleep more than going to work. I could get so much more done without sleep and work pays me. Everybody is on a 24 hour schedule and to me some days seem longer or shorter. But since work is the same time everyday I force myself to go to bed. I feel I shouldn't go to sleep unless I'm tired and that could happen at any varied length of time. If I didn't work who knows when I'd sleep. Within the last month I have been sleeping 5am to 2pm regularly.



My nasel pillow and hose came in the mail today, but not the strap yet. Looks like it will work better, I'm hoping.

[robysue]

I hate going to sleep more than going to work. I could get so much more done without sleep and work pays me. Everybody is on a 24 hour schedule and to me some days seem longer or shorter.

When you say that "everybody is on a 24 hour schedule" do you mean that your work requires you to be on call for 24 hours at a time? Or that you work irregular hours and you must be reachable 24 hours a day? Or something else?

But since work is the same time everyday I force myself to go to bed. I feel I shouldn't go to sleep unless I'm tired and that could happen at any varied length of time. If I didn't work who knows when I'd sleep. Within the last month I have been sleeping 5am to 2pm regularly.

What is your work schedule like? When do you have to be at work and when do you get off work?

Forcing yourself to go to bed when you are not yet sleepy is often counterproductive---particularly if forcing yourself to go to bed causes you to then lie awake for several hours fighting to get to sleep with the mask on, which then leads to your becoming so frustrated that you take the mask off and then fall asleep for most of your sleep time without the mask on.

So it's usually a good idea to only go to bed if you are feeling sleepy---as in sleepy enough to not care if there's a mask on your nose, so that you can fall asleep with the mask on. But if you are having serious problems getting sleepy at an appropriate time for your work schedule, that's an issue that you may need to address with some help from the sleep doc's office. In the long run, getting your sleep schedule stabilized is a good idea: It takes work, but if you can train your body to start getting sleepy at roughly the same time every 24 hours, then you may start sleeping better overall. And if the body is consistently getting sleepy at the same time every 24 hours, then you may also find that it is easier to fall asleep while masked up.

You say that in the last month you've been sleeping from 5:00am to 2:00pm. That's a 9 hour chunk of time, and if this time frame works for your lifestyle (in terms of getting to work on time, etc), then there's nothing a priori wrong with sleeping during those hours. But obviously if sleeping until 2:00pm is causing problems elsewhere in your life, then it's important to get the sleep schedule in better sync with your overall life.

So all things being equal and considering your work hours: If you could choose when to sleep, when would you prefer to go to bed and when would you prefer to wake up?

If your desired bedtime and wake up times are pretty close to the 5:00 am - 2:00 pm times you are currently sleeping, then your main tasks are to train the body to get sleepy by 5:00am, fall asleep with the mask on, and stay asleep with the mask on until 2:00pm. Falling asleep with the mask on is easier when your body is sleepy enough to just go to sleep instead of worrying about the dang alien thing sitting on your face.

If your desired bedtime and wake up times are very, very different from the 5:00am - 2:00pm time frame that you are currently sleeping, then you've got a mismatch between your circadian rhythm (when your body wants to sleep and when it wants to be awake) and the requirements of your lifestyle (when you need your body to sleep and when you need your body to be awake). In this case, delayed sleep phase syndrome (not getting sleepy as early as you want to) may be adding to your sleep woes. And you'll need to address both the need to train your body to tolerate the mask and to train your body to get sleepy around your desired bedtime.

Dealing with delayed sleep phase problems is possible, but not always easy. DSP is another one of my own sleep problems. In my case, I've learned to cope with some compromises on my work schedule (I'm a college professor, so I can usually get the people doing the scheduling to NOT give me a course that meets before 11:00am) and the use of a light box (in the winter time if the DSP gets really bad) and the use of prescription sleeping pills for nights when I need to get to sleep "on time" (at around 2:00-2:30 am) and I'm not yet sleepy or when I mask up and the machine causes me to become wide awake. The DSP is also better under control when I'm very meticulous about following all of the standard good sleep hygien rules.

[Chris333]

About the 24 hour schedule. I just mean a "day" is 24 hours. If I didn't work and could sleep when ever I wanted I doubt it would have anything to do with a 24 hour rotation.

I work 7pm to 3am.

Opposed to the way I fall asleep. Waking up is a little different. Sometimes I wake up 2 min before my alarm goes off for several days in a row. And in the winter time I usually push back my sleep time to 9am - 5pm just because it's cold out and no real reason to wake up early before work.

[robysue]

About the 24 hour schedule. I just mean a "day" is 24 hours. If I didn't work and could sleep when ever I wanted I doubt it would have anything to do with a 24 hour rotation.

I work 7pm to 3am.

Opposed to the way I fall asleep. Waking up is a little different. Sometimes I wake up 2 min before my alarm goes off for several days in a row. And in the winter time I usually push back my sleep time to 9am - 5pm just because it's cold out and no real reason to wake up early before work.

All things being equal, when would you LIKE to sleep? 9am to 5pm? or 5am to 2pm? Or some other schedule?

Is it any easier for you to fall asleep in a timely fashion if you push the sleep schedule to to 9:00am to 5pm? With your work schedule, that's a perfectly acceptable 8 hour sleep window. And if you are not usually sleepy until pretty close to 9:00am, it makes sense to wait until then to go to bed and not try to force yourself to fall asleep at 5:00am if you aren't actually sleepy yet.

With a 7pm to 3am work schedule, it's also possible that part of your problems with falling asleep at 5:00am while masked up is due to the fact that you're still physically wired from work. It can take more than two hours to unwind from a work day and get good and relaxed. And before you can sleep well you need to be both relaxed and sleepy.

Also note that if your sleeps schedule is very different on the days you don't work, then that too can make it much harder to fall asleep in a reasonable amount of time at your desired bedtime during your work week.

[Chris33]

Well right now I have a full blown cold with coughing and sneezing. Looking back this might have been the sore throat and swallowing I was having. I skipped the machine last night. Now I have the nasel pillow set up to try tonight and start over.


Any advise as to using the machine with a cold?

[Chris333]

Robysue,

It is more like 6am to 2pm I sleep and I do try to sleep the same when I'm off work. Sometimes in the summer I will try to wake earlier to do yard work and enjoy the weather (and daylight)

In all I think I'm just trying to hard to make this work. I need to give some time.

[Chris333]

2 nights ago I tried the nasal pillow. I thought for sure it would work and was excited to try it. The seal was good. Just like before soon as I would doze off my mouth would open. The only way I can describe the feeling would be if you were sleeping on an airplane and someone opened the door and sucked everybody out. It was so violent I jumped out of bed. I put the full mask back on and soon as I dozed off and my mouth opened I woke up. Because even with the full mask there is such a pressure difference when I open my mouth that it wakes me. This is probably what I've been feeling all along. While I'm awake I can keep my mouth shut, but once I'm sleeping I lose control. Plus the air pressure down my nose is forcing my relaxed mouth open from the inside.

Last night I bought paper tape to tape my mouth shut and tried the nasal pillow again. Soon as I dozed off my mouth filled with air and started whistling out my taped shut mouth. I jumped up again and tore the thing off.

How do you guys do it? I mean I can wear the masks and breath with no problems, but falling asleep is a no go so far. It is hard to keep my mouth shut when there is pressure from the inside forcing it open. It seems so violent while sleeping, or trying to sleep.

Unless there is a way to force myself to fall asleep with my mouth already open.

[Pugsy]

How do you guys do it?

My tongue blocks the door from the back of the airway to the mouth. It took some practice to get the tongue to learn to stay in position when I went to sleep but now it is second nature.
I can now open my mouth, stick out my tongue or even do a big yawn and no air will enter the mouth via that back door. I can even talk without air blowing out the mouth.

[robysue]

How do you guys do it?

My tongue blocks the door from the back of the airway to the mouth. It took some practice to get the tongue to learn to stay in position when I went to sleep but now it is second nature.
I can now open my mouth, stick out my tongue or even do a big yawn and no air will enter the mouth via that back door. I can even talk without air blowing out the mouth.

Pugsy is right here.

Some of us naturally keep our tongue up on the top of the roof of our mouth; others have to learn that trick.

When I was a newbie, I had to keep my tongue parked on the roof of my mouth or I'd get a mouth full of air. Now? Not so much, I've learned to keep the back of the tongue in place and I can talk (a bit) and yawn (a bit) without having much air get into my mouth.

It may help to develop an awareness of where you tend to keep your tongue when you are awake and breathing normally and NOT talking or eating. If you can pinch your nose closed and open your mouth and NOT be able to breathe comfortably, then you've located where your tongue needs to be to closer that back door that Pugsy talks about. One you're aware of how to shut that back door and keep it shut, it may become easier to fall asleep with the mask on.

Also in a full face mask, once you open up your mouth, if you keep your mouth open for several minutes, the air pressure in the your mouth should stabilize and become the same as the pressure in the rest of your upper airway and inside the mask. At that point, the air-rushing-through-your-mouth sensation should become less noticeable.

[Chris333]

Finally some success. Bought a air-fit F10 mask and it seems to be working. I wore it for 6.5 hours.

Wondering if there is a setting on the machine for it to record data? Took the card out today and there was no newer info on it. The date on the machine is set correctly and when I put the card in, it says "reading card" for a few seconds.

[OkyDoky]

Finally some success. Bought a air-fit F10 mask and it seems to be working. I wore it for 6.5 hours.

Wondering if there is a setting on the machine for it to record data? Took the card out today and there was no newer info on it. The date on the machine is set correctly and when I put the card in, it says "reading card" for a few seconds.

Are you sure the card was unlocked? With it locked the machine can read it but not write to it.

[Julie]

I think that if you have any choice at all, I'd make every effort to either get a regular daytime shift, or another job, because I think as things are now you're doing a lot of damage to your system. Some people can handle your hours, but not all, and I'm not even sure you necessarily have apnea, so much as that you're fighting your body for sleep according to natural light and darkness, and you don't seem to be winning.

[Chris333]

I found out why there was no data in sleepyhead, I forgot to "upload SD card" So all of my data is there. I feel like the f10 mask is working pretty good and I have been wearing it for the last 5 days. This is my best day where I wore it all "night" till my alarm went off. Here is the screen shot:

http://i.imgur.com/YwS3NFJ.png

I'm not sure I really under stand what "clear airway" is. Could it just be me swallowing?

Here is another "night" where the pressure maxed a little bit.

http://i.imgur.com/P1ZPWLZ.png

Do you guys see anything to be concerned about? That is other than keeping the mask on all night...

[tlm0721]

With an A-PAP if you set the press. @ the lowest setting the ResMed offers & the highest press the device will auto adjust until your apnea is corrected. The question is full face mask or nasal ? You will need to have someone with you while you sleep with the device on to determine if you are a mouth breather or not..

[palerider]

With an A-PAP if you set the press. @ the lowest setting the ResMed offers & the highest press the device will auto adjust until your apnea is corrected.

that's fine for the first night, and stupid thereafter.