Understanding Flow Rate (ASV)
- Uncle Flapp
- Posts: 247
- Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:24 pm
- Location: Arizona
Understanding Flow Rate (ASV)
Things with my sleep have been relatively uneventful (no pun intended) for months but I recently observed a pattern that has me scratching my head. I am hoping y'all can help me understand the data.
The snippet here shows me awake and drifting off:
This is my normal sleep pattern and what I see throughout most of the night. Wave form is pretty regular:
A couple of times per night, some weird stuff happens. This is where I could use some help. I'm not sure what causes this.
I see a series of short breaths followed by large breaths. The series repeats for about 15 or 20 minutes before returning to normal:
Back to normal again:
And then more weird activity including some CAs with PB before returning to normal.
I've seem this pattern for the last several nights. Not sure why. Any ideas? My CA and OA index for the night remains <1.0 but I would like to better understand those anomalies.
Thanks for your input!
- Flappy
The snippet here shows me awake and drifting off:
This is my normal sleep pattern and what I see throughout most of the night. Wave form is pretty regular:
A couple of times per night, some weird stuff happens. This is where I could use some help. I'm not sure what causes this.
I see a series of short breaths followed by large breaths. The series repeats for about 15 or 20 minutes before returning to normal:
Back to normal again:
And then more weird activity including some CAs with PB before returning to normal.
I've seem this pattern for the last several nights. Not sure why. Any ideas? My CA and OA index for the night remains <1.0 but I would like to better understand those anomalies.
Thanks for your input!
- Flappy
_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Additional Comments: Dreamstation ASV. UPPP in 2007; Untreated AHI 84 |
-
- Posts: 1562
- Joined: Tue May 06, 2008 5:57 pm
- Location: Murrysville, PA
Re: Understanding Flow Rate (ASV)
I get the same thing occasionally. It is periodic breathing or Cheyne Stokes Respirations. You don't want to see a lot of that. It can be a component of central apnea and indicates a waxing and waning of respiratory effort.
Here is my version from last night...not good, but probably SWJ.
Here is my version from last night...not good, but probably SWJ.
_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier |
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Additional Comments: Sleepyhead software. Just changed from PRS1 BiPAP Auto DS760TS |
Last edited by Sleeprider on Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Uncle Flapp
- Posts: 247
- Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:24 pm
- Location: Arizona
Re: Understanding Flow Rate (ASV)
Thanks for sharing, Sleeprider. Makes sense now that you call it out.
My second episode lasted 8 minutes but only the last 3 were flagged by the machine. The first was not flagged at all. Is that normal? I may have to review some old data to see if I can find other examples.
In thinking aloud, I wonder what causes my periodic breathing. I had an EKG a few months ago and everything appeared normal. Perhaps another trip to the cardiologist is in order.
- Flappy
My second episode lasted 8 minutes but only the last 3 were flagged by the machine. The first was not flagged at all. Is that normal? I may have to review some old data to see if I can find other examples.
In thinking aloud, I wonder what causes my periodic breathing. I had an EKG a few months ago and everything appeared normal. Perhaps another trip to the cardiologist is in order.
- Flappy
_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Additional Comments: Dreamstation ASV. UPPP in 2007; Untreated AHI 84 |
Re: Understanding Flow Rate (ASV)
I don't have an opinion on what you've posted, if it's just a few minutes here or there... I dunno...Uncle Flapp wrote:Perhaps another trip to the cardiologist is in order.
but this is one view of congestive heart failure:
Get OSCAR
Accounts to put on the foe list: dataq1, clownbell, gearchange, lynninnj, mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They often post misleading, timewasting stuff.
Accounts to put on the foe list: dataq1, clownbell, gearchange, lynninnj, mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They often post misleading, timewasting stuff.
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Re: Understanding Flow Rate (ASV)
Really the intermittent stuff like you and I posted is as likely to be 'sleep/wake junk as anything real. If it's not a routine part of your sleep then nothing to worry about. Last night mine was definitely swj and if you look at the time, I was probably half awake. I didn't do myself any favors by drinking a bit more than I should the night before.
Pale, that is a graph I hope never to see first-hand. My dad died of CHF. Had oxygen but no ventilation.
Pale, that is a graph I hope never to see first-hand. My dad died of CHF. Had oxygen but no ventilation.
_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier |
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Additional Comments: Sleepyhead software. Just changed from PRS1 BiPAP Auto DS760TS |
Re: Understanding Flow Rate (ASV)
that's from a friend of mine, I saw that and my immediate response was "holy shit"... and I started frantically learning as much as I could, decided he needed an asv, stumbled across one on craigslist, bought it, said "here, use this, AND GO TO YOUR DOCTOR AND DEMAND A REFERRAL TO A CARDIO"Sleeprider wrote:Pale, that is a graph I hope never to see first-hand. My dad died of CHF. Had oxygen but no ventilation.
he ain't ded yet
Last edited by palerider on Sun Apr 26, 2015 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
Get OSCAR
Accounts to put on the foe list: dataq1, clownbell, gearchange, lynninnj, mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They often post misleading, timewasting stuff.
Accounts to put on the foe list: dataq1, clownbell, gearchange, lynninnj, mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They often post misleading, timewasting stuff.
- Uncle Flapp
- Posts: 247
- Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:24 pm
- Location: Arizona
Re: Understanding Flow Rate (ASV)
Could be swj, I dunno... I got more questions than answers. I see similar spells almost nightly but they are usually HYP clusters and don't always include CAs. I previously assumed it was just the PRS1 being overly sensitive.Sleeprider wrote:Really the intermittent stuff like you and I posted is as likely to be 'sleep/wake junk as anything real. If it's not a routine part of your sleep then nothing to worry about. Last night mine was definitely swj and if you look at the time, I was probably half awake. I didn't do myself any favors by drinking a bit more than I should the night before.
After seeing Pale Rider's screenshot, I am not going to worry too much and just keep an eye on things. That graph is nasty. PR, best of luck to your friend.
- Flappy
_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Additional Comments: Dreamstation ASV. UPPP in 2007; Untreated AHI 84 |
- Uncle Flapp
- Posts: 247
- Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:24 pm
- Location: Arizona
Re: Understanding Flow Rate (ASV)
A call from work woke me early so I decided to take a quick look at last night's data. There were two more instances of this weird behavior. The second has no flags at all:
Is that periodic breathing? More swj? A dream where the dog and I are chasing rabbits? My OCD is having a difficult time letting this one go.
- Flappy
Is that periodic breathing? More swj? A dream where the dog and I are chasing rabbits? My OCD is having a difficult time letting this one go.
- Flappy
_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Additional Comments: Dreamstation ASV. UPPP in 2007; Untreated AHI 84 |
Re: Understanding Flow Rate (ASV)
I certainly am not qualified to give an opinion on your graphs but I have a question for you. I have seen myself, in my graphs, breathing in and not out. I can see that in yours. Is it possible that you are exhausting air through your mask while you FFM is a little to the side of your face? I use a nasal pillow and I do exhale from my mouth a little. This only happens when I am on my back.Uncle Flapp wrote:Things with my sleep have been relatively uneventful (no pun intended) for months but I recently observed a pattern that has me scratching my head. I am hoping y'all can help me understand the data.
The snippet here shows me awake and drifting off:
This is my normal sleep pattern and what I see throughout most of the night. Wave form is pretty regular:
A couple of times per night, some weird stuff happens. This is where I could use some help. I'm not sure what causes this.
I see a series of short breaths followed by large breaths. The series repeats for about 15 or 20 minutes before returning to normal:
Back to normal again:
And then more weird activity including some CAs with PB before returning to normal.
I've seem this pattern for the last several nights. Not sure why. Any ideas? My CA and OA index for the night remains <1.0 but I would like to better understand those anomalies.
Thanks for your input!
- Flappy
- Uncle Flapp
- Posts: 247
- Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:24 pm
- Location: Arizona
Re: Understanding Flow Rate (ASV)
Thanks for the reply, Pesser. I'm not an expert either and welcome all opinions. Anything is possible and I am a FFM side sleeper.Pesser wrote:I certainly am not qualified to give an opinion on your graphs but I have a question for you. I have seen myself, in my graphs, breathing in and not out. I can see that in yours. Is it possible that you are exhausting air through your mask while you FFM is a little to the side of your face? I use a nasal pillow and I do exhale from my mouth a little. This only happens when I am on my back.
For this event:
Sleepy Head reports a gradual leak rate rise from 0L/min to 4L/min and back down again. Total leak ranged from 34L/min to 38L/min and back. Coincidence or not, it does seem to correlate with the event. On the other hand, I did have an equally large leak rate in other areas and the graphs appear normal. Most of the time Leak Rate is 0 and Total Leak well within normal parameters. In the other two graph examples from my earlier post, Leak Rate remained 0 and Total Leak just under 40L/min.
It's a good theory but I am still not sure what to think.
- Flappy
_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Additional Comments: Dreamstation ASV. UPPP in 2007; Untreated AHI 84 |
Re: Understanding Flow Rate (ASV)
Uncle Flapp wrote: I've seem this pattern for the last several nights. Not sure why. Any ideas? My CA and OA index for the night remains <1.0 but I would like to better understand those anomalies.
Sleeprider is probably right about sleep-wake junk in the flow waveform.Sleeprider wrote: Here is my version from last night...not good, but probably SWJ.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16024516
- Jay Aitchsee
- Posts: 2936
- Joined: Sun May 22, 2011 12:47 pm
- Location: Southwest Florida
Re: Understanding Flow Rate (ASV)
And here's another I found interesting referenced at the address provided by -SWS
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3378217/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3378217/
_________________
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- Uncle Flapp
- Posts: 247
- Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:24 pm
- Location: Arizona
Re: Understanding Flow Rate (ASV)
Thanks for all the responses.
I see a more telling picture when I enable the Timed Breath flag and think this is likely just part of my complex apnea. PTBs range from 50% - 85% on any given night so I usually keep the flag off to avoid the extra clutter.
I suppose it could be sleep-wake junk or, more likely, the reason I am on ASV in the first place.
I see a more telling picture when I enable the Timed Breath flag and think this is likely just part of my complex apnea. PTBs range from 50% - 85% on any given night so I usually keep the flag off to avoid the extra clutter.
I suppose it could be sleep-wake junk or, more likely, the reason I am on ASV in the first place.
_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Additional Comments: Dreamstation ASV. UPPP in 2007; Untreated AHI 84 |
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- Posts: 1562
- Joined: Tue May 06, 2008 5:57 pm
- Location: Murrysville, PA
Re: Understanding Flow Rate (ASV)
Your machine is capable of dealing with that issue. Do you have timed breaths enabled?
_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier |
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Additional Comments: Sleepyhead software. Just changed from PRS1 BiPAP Auto DS760TS |
- grayghost4
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Re: Understanding Flow Rate (ASV)
I get patterns like that every night .. first one is usually about 90 min into the night and then they repeat through out the night ..... "REM" sleep.
If you're not part of the solution you're just scumming up the bottom of the beaker!
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