Backpacking, Hiking and Camping - the PowerAdd Pilot Pro

[Krelvin]

There is supposed to be a new product out called a Pilot-24 made by http://medistrom.com/products-pilot24.html

I have been unable to find where they are sold yet though, I left them a call and an email last night. This supports the S9 units which would be harder to supply power to than a PR unit.

Specifications:
• Capacity: 100 Wh
• Size: 19x12x2 cm
• Weight: 1.8 lbs
• Cell types: Industrial grade genuine rechargeable lithium ion cells manufactured by LG®
• Output voltage: 24V for CPAP, 5 V for USB
• Life time: approximately 500 full discharges
• Approximate usage: Depending on the pressure and other settings of PAP device.
• Charging time: 4-5 hours
• Warranty: 1 year from the date of purchase

[Sleeprider]

If you look for LiFePO4 batteries, the EarthX brand is considered the best, at least by the motorsports industry. The no-brand K2 battery linked on Amazon comes with a no refund stipulation.

NOTE: Lithium Iron Phosphate is non-refundable! For more information please see our Return Policy.

Most LiFEPO4 batteries are rated in amp-hours "lead equivalent" (pb-eq). The real available draw is about 25%-33% of the listed rating, and you need to take that into account. One advantage of LiFePO4 batteries is ability to deliver larger amps for size, while maintaining a very flat discharge cycle. The batteries lose a lot of capacity in cold temperatures. For indoor use, this will be less of a concern. LiFePO4 batteries need higher amperage automatic chargers that do not float-charge or desulfate. These can be an expensive addition.

These cautions may not be applicable to powering a CPAP, but I have lots of experience applying these to motorcycles. They are expensive and very good batteries, but people tend to buy them under-sized because the ratings are not "real", but equivalent to the current output of a conventional battery in high output starter service in ideal temperatures. Don't even begin with the CCA ratings.

If you're a real battery geek and want to see proof of just how untrue the LiFePO4 ratings are, check out this video: http://youtu.be/ySNbSZTgplA The Shorai 18 amp battery at 3:30 is killed by the same draws that a 12 amp AGM battery survived.

[OkyDoky]

I have been using this battery alternating with the Duracell powerpack. http://www.powerstream.com/BP-60.htm#OEM options It is organized with built in 12 volt female recepticle and both AC/DC cords in a zipper pocket. It works well but I was hoping to find a smaller lighter option.

[palerider]

There is supposed to be a new product out called a Pilot-24 made by http://medistrom.com/products-pilot24.html

I have been unable to find where they are sold yet though, I left them a call and an email last night. This supports the S9 units which would be harder to supply power to than a PR unit.

Specifications:
• Capacity: 100 Wh

30 watts rated for the flow generator, 90 for the system.

that doesn't bode well for lasting long time.

[rogerconnelly]

Well, I've used the PowerAdd at work to charge up two iPads at the same time - the battery itself has pretty steadily drained down from 99% when I started to 58% - no drastic jumps at all - and both iPads are up to around 40-45% charge. So, perhaps this battery isn't a defective unit after all - what do you all think?

One thing I thought of when re-reading all the posts in this thread: my pressure settings are higher than others who have had success with this battery. My pressure settings are 15/11, whereas finster63 has a pressure setting of 9 and sleepingsue says her pressure is set between 6 and 10. Could my higher pressure settings be the cause of the battery overload in my situation? Not that I can change that - I need that pressure - but maybe that lets me know that this battery just isn't going to work for me?

I think I'll still go through with the return of this batter (it's too expensive to just use as a phone recharger) and I guess my only battery option is the much more expensive options on cpap dot com - at least I know they will work - or I'll have some recourse if they don't. Unless I can get that old battery of mine to work tonight that is - I haven't given up there just yet

- Roger

[rogerconnelly]

I just realized that I can test my own theory there tonight by lowering the pressure on my CPAP at home and seeing if that allows the battery to run it - then I'll know that it's my higher setting causing the issue. Doesn't "fix" my problem - but at least I'll know what I'm dealing with.

Krelvin - thanks for that post - looks like on their website they also have a Pilot 12 unit specifically for PR machines. Sure would be nice to know how much they cost and where we could by them - hopefully you can share whatever you find out.

- Roger

[palerider]

Well, I've used the PowerAdd at work to charge up two iPads at the same time - the battery itself has pretty steadily drained down from 99% when I started to 58% - no drastic jumps at all - and both iPads are up to around 40-45% charge. So, perhaps this battery isn't a defective unit after all - what do you all think?

anything powered by USB is only going to pull a small fraction of the power of a cpap, especially on startup. I think Capnloki may be right in suggesting that it overloads when the cpap starts up, and trips a protection circuit.

[OkyDoky]

Well, Roger I really feel like I'm set up to fail on this one now because my machine and pressures are the same as yours. I should be testing it this weekend and will let all know. At least I do have 2 batteries that I know do work for my situtation. I'm able to charge during the day and use at night. Usually not more than 2 nights needed for myself.

[rogerconnelly]

palerider - I hear you - but some others had asked me to try draining it with anything to see if it did this "fast from 60% or so to nothing" behavior that they had seen.

And I agree with you and Capnloki - but the only frustrating part about that theory is that at least two other posters had posted success with my same CPAP machine and this battery. In fact, I asked repeatedly before I bought mine. The only thing I may have missed is that my pressure is much higher than theirs (although this may be a red herring too).

I'll post the results of my tests (both on this batter with my pressure set lower, and on my old batter with the fuse verified) late tonight or tomorrow.

- thanks - Roger

[Finster63]

I was hoping this would work but I have to say I'm not that surprised.

Except it's working just fine for myself, sleepingsue and adant33...

The nice thing about Amazon is they have a great return policy.

If you can't get it to work, I'd try to get a replacement from them first.

[rogerconnelly]

Thanks for the encouragement Finster63 - yes, once I'm done the tests I want to run tonight, I'll follow through with the return and hopefully the next PowerAdd will work better

- Roger

[CapnLoki]

I think I agree with much of what you're saying, but as always the devil is in the details...

If you look for LiFePO4 batteries, the EarthX brand is considered the best, at least by the motorsports industry. The no-brand K2 battery linked on Amazon comes with a no refund stipulation....

K2 isn't exactly a "no-brand" company - for instance they just got a $81 million Navy contract for a battery for a railgun that can shoot a projectile at mach 7 200 miles! But I wasn't endorsing K2; I only offered them as an example of the genre. EarthX is one of the companies using specs that are only meaningful for starting batteries. They may be good for that purpose, but without real specs, how can you buy them for a deep cycle application?

Most LiFEPO4 batteries are rated in amp-hours "lead equivalent" (pb-eq). ... The Shorai 18 amp battery at 3:30 is killed by the same draws that a 12 amp AGM...

I'm not sure "most" is the right word - it may be true of batteries sold in the motorcycle business as starting batteries. The Shorai is listed as "18 Ah PbEq" so they are specifically saying they are NOT really 18 Ah, they are the equivalent of an 18 Ah starting battery.

The batteries lose a lot of capacity in cold temperatures. For indoor use, this will be less of a concern.

True, but I don't think its much of an issue for summer camping. If you like to camp in below freezing temps you really have to take this into account. For indoor use (i.e. in a heated house) I would go with an AGM battery. In fact I did.

LiFePO4 batteries need higher amperage automatic chargers that do not float-charge or desulfate. These can be an expensive addition

Not really - desulphate mode, also know as "equalization mode" MUST be a user selectable function because it can also kill AGM or gel batteries. The high frequency desulphating that a few chargers have should also be avoided, but this is not that common. The float mode issue is that many chargers will go into float mode before the battery reaches 100%. Also, float mode for LiFePO4 should be a bit higher (13.6V) than for lead acid. BatteryTender sells a "lithium" charger for $30 that is tuned for LiFePO4.

These cautions may not be applicable to powering a CPAP, but I have lots of experience applying these to motorcycles. They are expensive and very good batteries, but people tend to buy them under-sized because the ratings are not "real", but equivalent to the current output of a conventional battery in high output starter service in ideal temperatures. Don't even begin with the CCA ratings.

As I said in my post, batteries that are sold to replace a starting battery might not be the right choice for CPAP power, and the specs are often misleading.

[rogerconnelly]

Hey Finster63 and/or sleepingsue - I was wondering if either of you would be willing to try the opposite test to what I'm going to try - namely, would you mind temporarily setting your machine to my pressure settings (15/11) and connecting the unit to your PowerAdd battery and see if the battery can still run your CPAP (sans humidifier of course)?

Sorry to ask, but I think if I get negative results tonight I will be left wondering if any PowerAdd is going to work for me - but this might help.

- thanks up front - Roger

[Finster63]

12.5 - that's your magic number.

On my PR System One REMstar 60 Series Plus, the PowerAdd shuts down immediately for any pressure greater than 12.5.

On 12.5 it seems to be working just fine.

I hope you can sleep with it on 12.5.

If not, it sounds like this was a failed experiment.

[Sleeprider]

12.5 - that's your magic number.

On my PR System One REMstar 60 Series Plus, the PowerAdd shuts down immediately for any pressure greater than 12.5.

On 12.5 it seems to be working just fine.

I hope you can sleep with it on 12.5.

If not, it sounds like this was a failed experiment.

Good feedback. I wonder if on an Auto machine it might allow slightly higher pressures not including startup. Sounds like Apollo 13 trying to find the power point at which there is no return.

My pressure on APAP is 11.0 but can climb to 14. Without a doubt, I could live on CPAP at 11 if needed. OTOH, the BiPAP I was using changes pressures with every breath. That would come with a surge or power needed. It sounds like you have discovered the secret to making this battery work is to limit pressure to 12.5.