Can drugs help reduce OSA?

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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Too tall
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Re: Can drugs help reduce OSA?

Post by Too tall » Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:12 am

englandsf wrote:I'm still twitchy about using drugs instead of CPAP, my machine tells me what happens every night and safeguards me against change using APAP mode.
Absolutely, I would not do that without a complete blessing from the doctor and only after a full blown sleep test. Actually, the sleep doctor told me he didn't think I needed the CPAP with an 8 AHI however, I had a problem with AFIB and choose to take the safe route. The AFIB was fixed with a surgical ablation and I don't want to do anything that would cause AFIB. So right now, I'm using a CPAP even though the sleep doctor says I don't need it. I've been on this earth long enough to know doctors are not always right and your heath is in your hands. Even if an 8 AHI is ok for my heart, a 1.5 has to be better.

I suspect the drugs are aiding my sleep efficiency since it's relieving the pain. My plan is to try to get off the Xanax and see if I can get some data with no sleep aid. I've lost 60 lbs and walk 4 miles now so maybe my baseline has changed to the point where I don't need a CPAP if I could sleep with medication? I'm not sure that's possible with me but there was a time I could do that so that's my goal. (the older I get, the worse the pain is at night, also)
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Too tall
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Re: Can drugs help reduce OSA?

Post by Too tall » Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:15 am

Tango wrote:When taking Xanax perhaps you aren't tossing and turning as much? Til the wear off.
Just a thought.
Agree, I definitely sleep better with the Xanax but if it is worsening the sleep apnea, I would do everything I can to get off of it. I haven't had a doctor tell me Xanax causes sleep apnea yet however.
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Re: Can drugs help reduce OSA?

Post by saltydawg2 » Fri Dec 19, 2014 8:06 pm

I had a flu shot, but the dominate strain is type A. Shot was good for type B, H1N1. So I have the flu. Now taking Tamiflu. I have been taking Nyquil, and have slept well, and AHI is below 5. I have also, before I got sick, taken half of a Tylenol PM, slept well AHI still below 5. I can't take opiates, because they make me itch. Not even synthetic versions. I really think it is because I am not tossing and turning, and am able to spend more time on my side. Don't think you have to break out the big guns.

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Re: Can drugs help reduce OSA?

Post by archangle » Sat Dec 20, 2014 7:37 am

There are so many things that affect sleep apnea positively or negatively. Sleep phases, sleep position, tissue swelling, congestion, stress, etc. It's hardly surprising if one person finds a particular drug affects their apnea. Something as simple as lying in a different position because of no back pain could make a difference.

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Re: Can drugs help reduce OSA?

Post by Julie » Sat Dec 20, 2014 8:39 am

You do realize how addictive (more and more needed to do the job) Xanax can be?

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perchancetodream7
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Re: Can drugs help reduce OSA?

Post by perchancetodream7 » Sat Dec 20, 2014 10:01 am

This is the first thread that I've contributed to that hasn't been started by me, and it is one that I feel I may be able to shed some light on as a person who is opioid dependent. I have been on morphine therapy for failed back surgery syndrome since 2000, and my dosage is continual via an implanted device. I was diagnosed with severe sleep apnea in October, which is greatly complicated by the morphine therapy. According to my study, I have both OSA and CSA--the number of events equal in number.

As for the drug decreasing the OSA, I agree with Julie that your airway may open a bit more from the relaxation effect of the drug, but she is right in that usually a higher dose is needed over time and the opiate can (and in my case, has) lead to centrals. The long-term morphine use has caused me to have complex apnea issues. I think the following link will be of interest to you, and it will lead you to other similar articles which address your question:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17803007

My sleep doctor prescribed straight CPAP therapy, regardless of the morphine. Oddly enough, she refuses to see that opiates, while creating a sedation effect, also cause arousals during sleep and may prevent one from reaching a REM state. I have printed out several studies from the Journal of Clinical Sleep Medicine that support this, but she remains unmoved by them. I won't go into my battle with her here--I just want to give you some research on the correlation of opiates and OSA.

Again, the studies all support what everyone here has said regarding centrals; opiates really are not a good way to treat apnea and can cause more harm than good. Be wary. Hope this helps.
~Susan

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Re: Can drugs help reduce OSA?

Post by Too tall » Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:56 am

Julie wrote:You do realize how addictive (more and more needed to do the job) Xanax can be?

Xanax is mildly addictive if abused or you just don't need it. You will reach a point where the dosage doesn't need to be increased. Xanax is like candy compared to Oxycodone and other opiates. They shouldn't even be in the discussion. Xanax is a wonderful and safe drug.

The problem with a lot of family doctors is they are so paranoid over prescribing anything that is addicting that they sometimes do more harm than good. For example; If you go into the doctor and tell him, I've got occasional anxiety/ depression, sleep issues etc... The first thing they do is put you on an expensive drug that you have to take every day. Paxil, celexa, effxor etc. et.., Whatever the pretty sales rep is pushing. Xanax cost about $2/ month. The others approach $100/ month. They tell you SSRI (Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors) are not additive but they are. With Xanax, you can spot treat a little anxiety or sleep issue, not so with the SSRI's. It's one every day like it or not. Half the world is on one of these SSRI. Xanax has no side effects for me. It's a racket for sure. It's a amazing what a few donuts or pizzas can do.

Addiction is only a problem when you run out. right? So if you got a prescription and it's handling your needs, that's what counts. The street has given opiate pain relievers a bad reputation but to some they improve the quality so much, it worth the addiction. Pain doctors understand this, family doctors don't. Getting off opiates is easy for me. Takes about 4 days to get it out of your system.

So last night I took 1 mg xanax and 50 mg Tramadol. (A fake none addicting opiate like pain reliever) Tramadol is another great drug and I use it to wean myself off opiates from time to time. Tramadol appears to have a longer half life than opiates also so for pain relief during sleep, it may be better than an opiate. Here's my chart. Notice the OSA once the drug wears off. I can't explain any of this. Just wondering if anyone has seen positive effects of pain relievers during sleep as related to OSA. I don't know about central apnea and the link with opiates. The article posted spoke of chronic morphine use in pretty high dose. That's some serious dosage. I won't go there.

My dilemma, I see a benefit from a mild pain reliever related to OSAs. But there doesn't seem to be a medical reason for the fewer OSAs. Here's my sleep chart from last night. Notice as the tramadol wears off, the OSAs increase.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxWjRG ... sp=sharing
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Re: Can drugs help reduce OSA?

Post by Too tall » Sat Dec 20, 2014 12:13 pm

perchancetodream7 wrote:This is the first thread that I've contributed to that hasn't been started by me, and it is one that I feel I may be able to shed some light on as a person who is opioid dependent. I have been on morphine therapy for failed back surgery syndrome since 2000, and my dosage is continual via an implanted device. I was diagnosed with severe sleep apnea in October, which is greatly complicated by the morphine therapy. According to my study, I have both OSA and CSA--the number of events equal in number.

As for the drug decreasing the OSA, I agree with Julie that your airway may open a bit more from the relaxation effect of the drug, but she is right in that usually a higher dose is needed over time and the opiate can (and in my case, has) lead to centrals. The long-term morphine use has caused me to have complex apnea issues. I think the following link will be of interest to you, and it will lead you to other similar articles which address your question:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17803007

My sleep doctor prescribed straight CPAP therapy, regardless of the morphine. Oddly enough, she refuses to see that opiates, while creating a sedation effect, also cause arousals during sleep and may prevent one from reaching a REM state. I have printed out several studies from the Journal of Clinical Sleep Medicine that support this, but she remains unmoved by them. I won't go into my battle with her here--I just want to give you some research on the correlation of opiates and OSA.

Again, the studies all support what everyone here has said regarding centrals; opiates really are not a good way to treat apnea and can cause more harm than good. Be wary. Hope this helps.
~Susan
Thanks for that Susan,
My sleep doctor doesn't really address the opiate usage either. Apparently, they just treat you with the drugs you take. Maybe they assume that's a given they have no control over. I haven't seen the arousal but I don't typically take an opiate prior to bedtime. With a patch, I realize you don't have a choice and I usually switch to xanax for a sleep aid as the opiate is wearing off. You might want to try asking your doctor for a little Xanax with that morphine. That would probably get rid of the arousal.

It's funny how the sleep doctors push the hell out of ambien but not xanax. Definitely sales influenced. just my opinion.
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Re: Can drugs help reduce OSA?

Post by Julie » Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:09 pm

I think you're playing down the effects of Xanax (I've seen what it does, if not personally) and I know you're looking for answers, but I don't think that's a good one. But good luck finding the right one.
Last edited by Julie on Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Can drugs help reduce OSA?

Post by Woody » Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:32 pm

It seems that pot may help some. But I think my sleep study showed me having an AHI
of about 80 so a 38% reduction wouldn't really help me much I would still need my trusty
cpap. And some studies show a good exercise program even with out any weight loss may
help about 35% also. i even saw one small study where one of the subjects went from an
untreated AHI of 40 to about 1 after an exercise program. And though I am mentioning
pot I don't use it, subjest using it or have any plans to try it.




http://www.truthonpot.com/2013/02/16/me ... eep-apnea/

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Re: Can drugs help reduce OSA?

Post by Too tall » Sat Dec 20, 2014 5:19 pm

Julie wrote:I think you're playing down the effects of Xanax (I've seen what it does, if not personally) and I know you're looking for answers, but I don't think that's a good one. But good luck finding the right one.

Julie,
I respect what you are saying and I don't want to come across as argumentative or whatever. I agree with you, I have seen people abuse benzo's and opiates, no question about that. But there are some of us who really need them for a ligit reason not for recreation. I'd just drink booze if I want to do that. I don't drink. I quit 10 years ago. My thought is, I've got to take this stuff anyway, so I was just curious as to other's experience. If there are alternatives that might help with the pain and also be beneficial for sleep apnea, that would be good to know.
Last edited by Too tall on Sat Dec 20, 2014 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Can drugs help reduce OSA?

Post by Too tall » Sat Dec 20, 2014 5:27 pm

Woody wrote:It seems that pot may help some. But I think my sleep study showed me having an AHI
of about 80 so a 38% reduction wouldn't really help me much I would still need my trusty
cpap. And some studies show a good exercise program even with out any weight loss may
help about 35% also. i even saw one small study where one of the subjects went from an
untreated AHI of 40 to about 1 after an exercise program. And though I am mentioning
pot I don't use it, subjest using it or have any plans to try it.




http://www.truthonpot.com/2013/02/16/me ... eep-apnea/

Thanks Woody, that's interesting. I probably would try pot either since it's illegal but good info. I walk for an hour every day so maybe that will help. It's nice to be able to talk with people about these things without getting a lecture. I'm 67 and certainly know what not to do when it comes to drug use. As I mentioned to Julie, I've got to take something for pain but I would like to take the pain meds that would have the least effect on CPAP therapy or ideally, reduce the AHI.
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Re: Can drugs help reduce OSA?

Post by palerider » Sat Dec 20, 2014 5:31 pm

Too tall wrote:Thanks Woody, that's interesting. I probably would try pot either since it's illegal but good info.
less so than a couple weeks ago: http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-med ... story.html

and of course, in washington and colorado, and as of Jan 1, oregon, even recreational use is legal. http://www.mpp.org/states/oregon/

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Re: Can drugs help reduce OSA?

Post by Woody » Sat Dec 20, 2014 10:05 pm

My AHI varies a lot anywhere from 1.2 to 5.3 partially because of my side sleeping or
having a late night snack or who knows what. But a bout 2 weeks ago I started useing
some of the ameno acid Glycine as it may help with insulin resistance. One side effect
of Glycine is an increase in dreaming and in my case it may have lowered my average AHI
just a little. But as I said at the start my AHI varies a lot and the change is just a little and
may not really be because of the Glycine but on the other hand the dreams are kind of neat.
Some reports say it may inprove sleep quality also but I will leave the Google search about
that up to you.

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Re: Can drugs help reduce OSA?

Post by Too tall » Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:46 am

Years ago I took Paxil for a while and the dreams were incredible. It was like a movie with me in every one of them. I get up and go to the bathroom and return back to sleep and resume where I left off on the dream. Didn't do the cpap then so I don't know what would be the effect. I guess if you are dreaming, you are in rem?
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