Sleep Apnea and Low T for Men

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
Sleeprider
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Re: Sleep Apnea and Low T for Men

Post by Sleeprider » Mon Dec 15, 2014 12:41 pm

tlewis303 wrote:So the single application only raised my T level 50 point still in low range. Now will use 2 pumps per shoulder. Anyone ever had to do this to increase and obtain normal T numbers?
Results are much more predictable with injection. A single pump Androgel only raised my T-levels negligible amounts. I was switched to injection, and it is stead at 800 ug/dL. The cost difference is just amazing. I recall Androgel was nearly $400 for one month at single pump! Testosterone Cypionate IM is like $140 for 4-months supply.

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bjl
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Re: Sleep Apnea and Low T for Men

Post by bjl » Mon Dec 15, 2014 12:50 pm

800 ?!?! Are you lifting trucks yet? Out of curiosity, what is your dosage?

-b

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tlewis303
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Re: Sleep Apnea and Low T for Men

Post by tlewis303 » Mon Dec 15, 2014 12:51 pm

They give you a $10 co pay card now. So its $10 a month. But now I guess that will increase to $20 since I'm doubling dosage.
Did you feel better faster with taking injections? Do you get a rollercoaster affect with injections?

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Malibu
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Re: Sleep Apnea and Low T for Men

Post by Malibu » Mon Dec 15, 2014 2:23 pm

I find out my 3 month results Wednesday from using 10 percent cream daily. . Will be interesting to see the results. Apnea numbers have not changed for the last 3 months. Still zero to point 5.

tlewis303
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Re: Sleep Apnea and Low T for Men

Post by tlewis303 » Mon Dec 15, 2014 2:30 pm

Malibu do you mean gel? Androgel?

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Sleeprider
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Re: Sleep Apnea and Low T for Men

Post by Sleeprider » Mon Dec 15, 2014 4:34 pm

My dosage was 1/2 cc (100 mg) weekly or 200 mg biweekly IM. After my last results in the mid 800 range, I cut that 20% and do 4/10 cc. I prefer weekly since I was getting quite a rush and trough effect on the biweekly injections. Weekly means I don't notice any ups or downs. I use a 25 gauge needle which is really fine. It takes a while to push the injection since it is in an oil base. Self-injection is a head trip, but it's essentially painless.

I started in August this year, and it took a while for my attitude to get in gear. I'm just starting to take off some weight, and my activity level is quite a bit higher. Have not lifted a truck, but put an ignition module in the chainsaw and cut up a 90 foot tree that fell on the property last week. I walk/run about 2 miles 3-times a week on the steep hills here, and that is getting my aerobic capacity back a bit. Still have a long way to go.

I think gels are fine if they work for you, but as I said, they are ridiculously expensive, and will never get you to the levels of injection. I also don't like the risks the gel poses to my wife. I think a lot of the problem for me is that we have a swimming pool, and in summer, I end up washing off the Androgel 3 hours or so after application.

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Malibu
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Re: Sleep Apnea and Low T for Men

Post by Malibu » Tue Dec 16, 2014 12:44 pm

Not a gel but a cream. 10 percent micronized testosterone. 1 ml in the morning rubbed on the upper thigh until dry. About 1 minute. 65 dollars per month from an accredited compounding pharmacy. Tomorrow I should have the results to see how effective it is

tlewis303
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Re: Sleep Apnea and Low T for Men

Post by tlewis303 » Tue Dec 16, 2014 2:11 pm

cool, I would be interested in your results.

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tlewis303
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Re: Sleep Apnea and Low T for Men

Post by tlewis303 » Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:59 am

Malibu has treatment made you feel better?

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Malibu
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Re: Sleep Apnea and Low T for Men

Post by Malibu » Thu Dec 18, 2014 10:16 am

Got the results yesterday and not what I expected....went from 232 to 272 using the max safe dose (10 percent) All blood work (red blood cell count etc) on the low normal end of the range which is excellent

Dr asked me how I felt and I told him I felt great...first time in over 8 years that I felt good. He said the numbers are subjective and it's more about how you feel as long as the other numbers (red blood cell count etc) were inline....

I guess I was looking more for the 600 range. I'm kind of wondering if 40 points can make all that much difference and whether I could feel MUCH better even though I feel great now.

I was under the assumption according to everything I have read that you normally want to do blood serum 2 hours after application and his standard was 4 hours. He said that might have contributed some to the lower number than I was expecting. He said the creams/jells are absorbed quickly by most people so he wasn't sure it was an absorption problem. He offered the shot once a week solution but since I felt great he said it was up to me if I wanted to try it. A couple on here mentioned creams/jells didn't do the trick for them but a shot worked great.

Since I am more a black/white or yes/no type of person (system analyst by profession) it will give me something to think about I guess.

He offered to do saliva testing but said it was inaccurate by today's standards. Said the numbers would be much higher than the blood test. Pharmacy guy believes in saliva testing, doctor went away from that recently and started doing blood serum only.

I hate all these "grey area" things. Kind of scary that everyone has a different opinion about this treatment. I guess I should feel lucky I feel great. Just wondering if I could feel "greater"!

tlewis303
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Re: Sleep Apnea and Low T for Men

Post by tlewis303 » Thu Dec 18, 2014 10:41 am

Thats great you feel good. It is frustrating with all the grey areas. Well 2 pumps of androgel raised my level from 243 to 287, but don't feel any different, still not great and head fog is still there 24x7. So now I just started (per Dr) with 4 pumps (81g) per day. I guess I need to give it 30 days to see. If that doesn't bring it up enough I guess I will be going in for shots... Not many options left. Some are using pallets but I don't think its common practice just yet. One thing even with cpap I seem to be sleeping better especially the first several hours of the night. I wonder if T therapy is helping with that.

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bjl
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Re: Sleep Apnea and Low T for Men

Post by bjl » Thu Dec 18, 2014 12:29 pm

The other thing to note is that the numbers you're posting are total T levels. A better indicator is "free T" levels. Sometimes the report will include a "calculated free T" level, but an actual measured free T level is better. Some guys have total T levels that are OK, but low free T levels. The other thing to check is your estrogen (estradiol) levels. Even males have some amount of estrogen some of which is converted from T via a process called aromitisation. Too much estrogen can cause various problems in men and may be an indicator that too much of your T is being converted to estrogen. Bodybuilders who take stupid amounts of T often also take aromitase inhibitors to combat this. You also should have your Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG) checked. You can Google that to learn more about how it affects your free T levels.

In any case, those free T numbers in the mid to high 200s would still be considered quite low by any doc. And I believe it's generally acknowledged that injecting T has greater efficacy than creams or gels.

-b

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tlewis303
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Re: Sleep Apnea and Low T for Men

Post by tlewis303 » Thu Dec 18, 2014 12:46 pm

My Free T was 5.7 up from 4.6 but still not in the range of 7.2-?? (not sure top range).

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Malibu
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Re: Sleep Apnea and Low T for Men

Post by Malibu » Thu Dec 18, 2014 12:55 pm

Tlewis...has your doctor mentioned saliva testing versus blood testing??

tlewis303
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Re: Sleep Apnea and Low T for Men

Post by tlewis303 » Thu Dec 18, 2014 1:12 pm

No she hasn't. I thought I read somewhere that they aren't as accurate as a blood test.
What would be the benefit of saliva testing? Just quicker?

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