Sleep Apnea and Low T for Men

[tlewis303]

Its kind of like the chicken or the egg. I know that fragmented sleep can reduce the amount of T that is produced at night. In other words if you don't get much deep (REM) sleep a low T condition can occur.

[bv1800]

If it were chicken or egg, then there would be evidence that T therapy improves sleep, at least in some me who suffer from low T and poor sleep quality. As I mentioned earlier, in my search for info on the relationship of sleep quality and T therapy, there's only evidence that T therapy causes sleep issues to worsen, although not in all men.

The "causal" chain is pretty clear: Poor sleep reduces T. Improving sleep for men with low T, increases T.

[VictorC]

VictorC,
How long did it take on the therapy before you felt better?

For me I felt better after a few days to feel results. I started out on Testim, which is absorbed a bit better. Unfortunately my insurance didn't cover it, and I didn't feel like paying $400 a month. So I switched to Androgel this year. I have had issues absorbing Androgel, and my doctor increased my dosage a couple of months ago. That seemed to make me feel a bit better again.

[tlewis303]

Do you have head fog and memory issues related low T?

[bv1800]

Do you have head fog and memory issues related low T?

I thought that I did, before being prescribed Androgen. A couple weeks after starting to use it, the head fog and memory issues were far worse and continued to degenerate, until I stopped using it 2 months after starting. It was so bad that I didn't even realize how bad it actually was. After 3 separate occasions where I started to get out of a running car while the transmission was still engaged, my wife was contemplating taking my keys and hiding them. It took 2 weeks for the effects to start to wear off and over a month for them to completely wear off.

[tlewis303]

Oh wow that is crazy. VictorC did you have the fog too?

[Malibu]

My experience was just the opposite. T level 233. Very low for a 58 year old. Started compounded cream (10 percent ...65 dollars a month) and within a couple of days no more fatigue, fog, or memory issues.

Been chasing the fatigue issue for almost 8 years. Mild OSA fixed. Blood work done a dozen times. Everything good. Doctor finally decided to check T levels 3 months ago and finally an answer for the last 8 years of feeling like garbage.

Of course everyone is different so your mileage may vary!!

[tlewis303]

Malibu,
Thank you for your insight. That has been me for that last 4.5yrs. Trying to find the answer to the fog as it just hit me one morning at work.
I thought it chantix as I had stopped smoking at the time. So about 2 yrs ago I had T check it was in the low range but not enough for Doc to recommend any therapy. So now my sleep doc had me checked again and it was 233. So now I'm working with an Endo who checked in more detail and found my free T was at 248 first thing in the morning which is suppose to be the time with the highest amount of T in your system. So probably going to be put on Androgel this week. I will dance in the street if this fog goes away and my fatigue lifts as well. I'm actually happy to be diagnosed with something that hopefully can be controlled.

[tlewis303]

I go into sleep center tonight to get a titration test. Want to settle that issue as well. Have fragmented sleep and need to get pressure right.

Malibu, Did your sleep improve with low T therapy?

[Malibu]

No. Sleep was the same.

It's suppose to possibly make apnea worse but didn't experience that. Straight cpap 10.2 Resmed S9. AHI less than .2 average.

It was frustrating knowing everything was fine but had fatigue that no amount of sleep would fix.

Cpap was a good thing no doubt but did little to make me feel better.

I will have my numbers checked in a few weeks to check the T level along with the red blood cell count which in some people can cause an increased risk of stroke if the RBC goes to high. Hopefully not as its been great the last two months feeling normal again. Can't say I feel like 20 again but a thousand times better than the last 8 years!!

[bv1800]

My experience was just the opposite. T level 233. Very low for a 58 year old. Started compounded cream (10 percent ...65 dollars a month) and within a couple of days no more fatigue, fog, or memory issues.

Been chasing the fatigue issue for almost 8 years. Mild OSA fixed. Blood work done a dozen times. Everything good. Doctor finally decided to check T levels 3 months ago and finally an answer for the last 8 years of feeling like garbage.

Of course everyone is different so your mileage may vary!!

I'm sure that 90% of men who do T therapy have good benefit from it. I was just trying to point out that it's not the cure all that some may claim.

[Guest]

I heard the androgel doesn't work for every man?

I saw a story on the news today, that not only does it not work for some men, but it does more harm than good (heart attacks, etc), for some.

The docs say that testosterone feeds prostate cancer. So the first course of treatment is androgen deprivation which drops your levels close to zero AND the studies the docs follow suggest to keep T down for 2 yrs.

I'd be careful with any supplements.

[VictorC]

Oh wow that is crazy. VictorC did you have the fog too?

A little, yes. Thought that might have been partly due to my sleep apnea too. I know when I am absorbing my testosterone well I do feel more energetic and alert, but it is subtle. The effects to my alertness and energy level from my CPAP therapy are much more dramatic.

[Malibu]

I heard the androgel doesn't work for every man?

I saw a story on the news today, that not only does it not work for some men, but it does more harm than good (heart attacks, etc), for some.

The docs say that testosterone feeds prostate cancer. So the first course of treatment is androgen deprivation which drops your levels close to zero AND the studies the docs follow suggest to keep T down for 2 yrs.

I'd be careful with any supplements.

As with any drug there are possible side effects. Testosterone is a controlled substance and results should be monitored closely.

If you have prostate cancer or suspected prostate cancer then it is a no brainer not to use testosterone supplements. No doctor in their right mind would prescribe this regiment if you had that problem.

Another known possible side effect is raising the red blood cell count. As explained to me, the bone marrow that makes red blood cells has testosterone receptors which trigger the body into making more red blood cells. Not a bad thing if your count is within the acceptable range. Mine was on the low end so had plenty of room to play with. More red blood cells equals thicker blood which can make a person who is already prone to stroke/heart attack have an increased risk of a stroke/heart attack.

The key is proper monitoring. And sometimes self education isn't a bad thing either if your doctor seems a little to eager to start this therapy without follow up tests to confirm T levels, RBC levels etc are within the proper range.

Following the guide lines doesn't mean you won't drop dead tomorrow however it will make you sleep better knowing your doing things properly.

I can totally see why this is a controlled substance. Athletes have been abusing this for years and on occasion you hear about young people having strokes and heart attacks...go figure!

True, there are several ways of raising T and some work better than others. I elected to go the compounded pharmacy route (about 65 dollars and a pharmacy within 30 miles of here). My insurance wanted me to pay 980 dollars for three months which was ridiculous for the main stream brands. The nice thing about compounding is your doctor can adjust the amount and still use the same volume of cream....custom tuned so to speak.

[tlewis303]

hmm, the other thing I was thinking about before going on Androgel was to have magnesium and zinc levels checked as they are a big part of T production.
I take a magnesium supp now and I eat foods rich with zinc so I doubt there are issues there, but worth asking doc about. Have you all had zinc checked?