$1,000,000 payout for Sleep Apnea Lawsuit

[palerider]

Please stick to the topic. Take your concentration camp / martial law paranoia elsewhere.

Be nice... you don't own the thread unless your last name is Goodman...

if you're going to allow someone to spew delusional rants, then it's fair to allow someone else to suggest they shut the hell up. free speech and all that.

[chunkyfrog]

I think Goofproof has some progressive health problems.
I can imagine a lot of pain.
Sharing it doesn't help much, does it?

[Mozart22]

Please stick to the topic. Take your concentration camp / martial law paranoia elsewhere.

Be nice... you don't own the thread unless your last name is Goodman...

I have always thought of sleep apnea as a disease not a handicap.

Sheriff

It depends on how you define a handicap or disability. If you are someone who tries hard not to be sleepy and exhausted all the time but continue feeling that way, i would certainly consider that a handicap. A person in a wheelchair is considered handicapped because they cannot walk. Well a person who is exhausted all the time can also not do many things a healthy person can do. There is CPAP therapy but it does not solve the exhaustion problem for everyone. Whether it is OSA or CSA or CFS or whatever, if a person is always exhausted and honestly tries to solve that to not avail I consider them handicapped. Of course there are worse things, like being paralyzed or being blind, but chronic exhaustion makes it very very hard to keep a good job without being fired.

Clearly the jury agrees and awarded this ex cop a million bucks.

[PST]

Bush was a fool, but he wasn't a traitor, with a addenda of crashing the monetary system, FEMA and Homeland Insecurity, death camps and bring Ebola to thin the population. Martial Law folks, no escape, for us old and infirm, just plastic coffin liners.

Hitlers concentration camps are already built and waiting. Just put your head in the sand, and wait, it won't be long now. Jim

The President is taking his sweet time about it, isn't he? How about a friendly $10,000 wager that Obama leaves office peacefully in January 2017 with no death camps in operation? My only hesitancy is concern that when the time rolls around we won't be able to agree on who won. You will tell us that the death camps are actually churning away and that Obama is still secretly running the country but the corrupt press won't report it and the sheeple are too apathetic to object.

[49er]

Bush was a fool, but he wasn't a traitor, with a addenda of crashing the monetary system, FEMA and Homeland Insecurity, death camps and bring Ebola to thin the population. Martial Law folks, no escape, for us old and infirm, just plastic coffin liners.

Hitlers concentration camps are already built and waiting. Just put your head in the sand, and wait, it won't be long now. Jim

The President is taking his sweet time about it, isn't he? How about a friendly $10,000 wager that Obama leaves office peacefully in January 2017 with no death camps in operation? My only hesitancy is concern that when the time rolls around we won't be able to agree on who won. You will tell us that the death camps are actually churning away and that Obama is still secretly running the country but the corrupt press won't report it and the sheeple are too apathetic to object.

PST, it so good to see you posting. Ready for the political posts?

49er

[Davidwnc]

if you're going to allow someone to spew delusional rants, then it's fair to allow someone else to suggest they shut the hell up. free speech and all that.

+1

[Davidwnc]

Whether it is OSA or CSA or CFS or whatever, if a person is always exhausted and honestly tries to solve that to not avail I consider them handicapped.

Just out of curiosity, if 2 people have type 1 diabetes, and 1 isn't able to keep their blood glucose within the normal range using insulin injections, and the other is, would you consider 1 handicapped, and the other not?

[Sheriff Buford]

As a retired law enforcement officer, I am of the opinion that sleeping (or the lack of) on the job for WHATEVER reason can get yourself killed, your partner killed or innocent people killed or harmed. I have seen officers burn the candle at both ends and do sloppy work and impair their judgment. The citizens tax dollars are not paying me to sleep on the job. No business owner is either. I had untreated sleep apnea for a long time. I had to work thru it like most folks do (work, family and other responsibilities). It was not my bosses fault and I shouldn't get paid to sleep.


Sheriff

[Mozart22]

Whether it is OSA or CSA or CFS or whatever, if a person is always exhausted and honestly tries to solve that to not avail I consider them handicapped.

Just out of curiosity, if 2 people have type 1 diabetes, and 1 isn't able to keep their blood glucose within the normal range using insulin injections, and the other is, would you consider 1 handicapped, and the other not?

That would depend on whether the person tried everything they could to keep their glucose range normal AND it made them so sickly or weak that they couldnt hold a good job or make a decent living. In other words the handicap would depend on how awful they felt after trying everything they could. The reason why I said the exhaustion is like a handicap (and the jury agreed) is because it prevents being able to work consistently and keeping a job, therefor unable to provide for yourself financially.


The problem with health and healing is that different people react differently to treatments. Some people respond well to treatment and others do not. There is no one size fits all approach. Why is that some people can pop a pill and feel fine, but others with the exact same medical problem try the same drug and get no benefit from it? Some people can treat theur exhaustion while some soend years and years searching for a solution, while sometimes being unable to work because their condition is that debilitating

[49er]

As a retired law enforcement officer, I am of the opinion that sleeping (or the lack of) on the job for WHATEVER reason can get yourself killed, your partner killed or innocent people killed or harmed. I have seen officers burn the candle at both ends and do sloppy work and impair their judgment. The citizens tax dollars are not paying me to sleep on the job. No business owner is either. I had untreated sleep apnea for a long time. I had to work thru it like most folks do (work, family and other responsibilities). It was not my bosses fault and I shouldn't get paid to sleep.


Sheriff

Thanks Sheriff, that is what I figured. If a law enforcement officer needs an accommodation such as a nap because of his/her sleep disorder, that person needs a new career.

Now if we are talking about a clerical employee in a major corporation that has flex hours under the same conditions, that is a different story because it seems to me, providing an accommodation for a nap is reasonable as long as the employee makes up the time.

49er

[cathyf]

Thanks Sheriff, that is what I figured. If a law enforcement officer needs an accommodation such as a nap because of his/her sleep disorder, that person needs a new career.

Now if we are talking about a clerical employee in a major corporation that has flex hours under the same conditions, that is a different story because it seems to me, providing an accommodation for a nap is reasonable as long as the employee makes up the time.

49er

That's the distinction in the law, too -- "reasonable accommodation" is the legal term. The bizarro world legally is that you have more rights if your disability is not treatable. So, for example, if you responded really well to cpap and were returned to totally normal functioning by it, then they could fire you for bringing your cpap to the on-call room and using it while you were in your bunk, but if the treatment were only 95% effective so that you could do your job with reasonable accommodations, then you would be protected from being fired by the ADA.

[49er]

Thanks Sheriff, that is what I figured. If a law enforcement officer needs an accommodation such as a nap because of his/her sleep disorder, that person needs a new career.

Now if we are talking about a clerical employee in a major corporation that has flex hours under the same conditions, that is a different story because it seems to me, providing an accommodation for a nap is reasonable as long as the employee makes up the time.

49er

That's the distinction in the law, too -- "reasonable accommodation" is the legal term. The bizarro world legally is that you have more rights if your disability is not treatable. So, for example, if you responded really well to cpap and were returned to totally normal functioning by it, then they could fire you for bringing your cpap to the on-call room and using it while you were in your bunk, but if the treatment were only 95% effective so that you could do your job with reasonable accommodations, then you would be protected from being fired by the ADA.

Wow cathyf, if you're talking about a place like a hospital or fire department, that is pretty bad if you got fired bringing a cpap to the on-call room. On what basis would an employee be fired for doing that? If you don't want to answer, I understand.

49er

PS - Thank for mentioning the term, "reasonable accommodation." It was at the tip of my brain but I just couldn't remember it.

[Wulfman...]

Den,

As an aside, many people have been completely compliant with pap therapy for months and still have problems.

With the ADA, the issue is the employer cannot fire you if you can meet the essential duties of the job with an accommodation. And if I remember correctly, sleep apnea is a disability if there are lingering unresolved issues like neurological deficits. In the policeman's case, the details seemed to be scant so I want to reserve judgment about what occurred. However, here is a possible scenario.

In spite of completely complying with pap therapy, he was still quite sleepy and needed to take naps while on the job. Well, even though I am sure cops do it unofficially, needing to take a nap is not meeting the essential duties of the job for obvious reasons and would make him unsuitable for the job. The police department could offer him a desk job in which his apnea might not be as much of an issue but as far as I know, they aren't obligated to do so under the law.

You're right, employers many times will find ways to get rid of you if they want to no matter what the law is. On one of my invisible disability lists, the sentiment was that disclosing was usually never beneficial and that if accommodations were needed, always phrase the request in terms of how it would help you be a better employee or in as positive terms as possible. Of course, if you have a visible disability, that is a whole different ballgame.

A link in the local newspaper:

http://www.mcphersonsentinel.com/articl ... /141019413

Apparently this situation happened two years ago and the chances of further legal wrangling are pretty much a done deal. The city is going to appeal it, it appears. Being "awarded" the money and "collecting" it aren't necessarily the same thing.
But, having seen other similar situations firsthand, if they want to get rid of you they'll find ways of doing so. Maybe this one was pretty blatant and somebody screwed up, but don't count on the ADA and the "disability" factor to save your butt if you KNOW you have OSA and don't take your therapy seriously.


Den

.

You either misunderstood or I didn't elaborate well enough. So, here's a little more to the story.

Two of the situations I know of personally were people who (as far as I know) had NOT been professionally diagnosed with Sleep Apnea, but fell asleep on the job during their night jobs (think "guard" position in a high security installation). One reason I know of it is because I had to be the one to search through the closed-circuit camera recordings and provide that data to management in one case......the other case happened after I retired. In all probability, these two people had Sleep Apnea, but were not given a chance to have their condition checked by medical professionals. If the ADA is supposed to "protect" workers, should it be appropriate that the workers be allowed to find out if they actually HAVE a classified disability BEFORE they're terminated?

Management can be cold-hearted and brutal when they want to be. Or very accommodating when they want to be. In the same place there was one person (in a supervisory position and close friend of management) who was wheel-chair bound. Lots of accommodations for that person. It all depends on "who you know", too.


Den

.

[cathyf]

Wow cathyf, if you're talking about a place like a hospital or fire department, that is pretty bad if you got fired bringing a cpap to the on-call room. On what basis would an employee be fired for doing that? If you don't want to answer, I understand.

That was a hypothetical, 49er -- just pointing out that the disability law is weird that way. There was a case where a person who was on antidepressants was fired because the boss didn't want crazy people working there. The employee sued under the ADA, and the ruling was that the antidepressants WORKED, so the person wasn't disabled by the criteria of the law, and so was not protected against being fired.

Like I said, bizarro world. Sometimes the law works that way.

[49er]

You either misunderstood or I didn't elaborate well enough. So, here's a little more to the story.

Two of the situations I know of personally were people who (as far as I know) had NOT been professionally diagnosed with Sleep Apnea, but fell asleep on the job during their night jobs (think "guard" position in a high security installation). One reason I know of it is because I had to be the one to search through the closed-circuit camera recordings and provide that data to management in one case......the other case happened after I retired. In all probability, these two people had Sleep Apnea, but were not given a chance to have their condition checked by medical professionals. If the ADA is supposed to "protect" workers, should it be appropriate that the workers be allowed to find out if they actually HAVE a classified disability BEFORE they're terminated?

Management can be cold-hearted and brutal when they want to be. Or very accommodating when they want to be. In the same place there was one person (in a supervisory position and close friend of management) who was wheel-chair bound. Lots of accommodations for that person. It all depends on "who you know", too.

Thanks Den for clarifying and totally agree with you about the workers and how management can be cold-hearted and brutal. Essentially, law or no law, if management wants to keep you as an employee with a disability, they will and if they don't, they will find a legal way to fire you. And since employers win most of the cases, there isn't much you can do about it if you get screwed.

49er

Den

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