Resmed 10 for women vs regular version

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Anemone

Resmed 10 for women vs regular version

Post by Anemone » Fri Oct 17, 2014 8:57 pm

When the new Resmeds Autocpaps came on the market a few weeks ago I did not notice a difference in their description othe than the women's model had a new algorythm. Now I see they say it's "a dedicated algorithm for female patients with mild to moderate obstructive sleep apnea". Does this means not machine may not be as powerful as the regular model. If I ever needed additional air pressure, would it be able to provide it? Would love to hear from those who have looked into this machine. Thanks.

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Re: Resmed 10 for women vs regular version

Post by palerider » Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:10 pm

Anemone wrote:When the new Resmeds Autocpaps came on the market a few weeks ago I did not notice a difference in their description othe than the women's model had a new algorythm. Now I see they say it's "a dedicated algorithm for female patients with mild to moderate obstructive sleep apnea". Does this means not machine may not be as powerful as the regular model. If I ever needed additional air pressure, would it be able to provide it? Would love to hear from those who have looked into this machine. Thanks.
the severity of the apnea has no correlation to the pressures needed to overcome it.

severity is a measure of frequency, not 'strength'.

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Re: Resmed 10 for women vs regular version

Post by kaiasgram » Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:21 pm

Anemone, the "10 for her" Autoset has the same range of pressures as the other Autosets, 4-20 cmwp. For more info on the "female algorithm" feature:

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/resmed ... ations-tab

It has to do with the way the machine responds (mostly timing) when it detects flow limited breathing.

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Re: Resmed 10 for women vs regular version

Post by Pugsy » Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:30 pm

The AirSense 10 Autoset for Her actually has 3 modes of operation.
CPAP mode
APAP mode with the regular algorithm
APAP mode with the new "for Her" algorithm

All 3 modes have pressures available 4 - 20

For simplification purposes..think of it like this..the for Her algorithm can go as high as the others in terms of pressures delivered but they say they deliver whatever pressure is use more gently than the regular algorithm.
https://www.cpap.com/productpage/resmed ... ations-tab

This is from the product page but if you go to Resmed there are documents that go into more detail.
https://www.cpap.com/productpage/resmed ... atures-tab
"One of the most innovative features of the AirSense™ 10 AutoSet for Her is the algorithm developed for women and the manner in which OSA affects them. A standard algorithm responds after 3 flow limited breaths and will move up by as much as 3 cmwp. The For Her algorithm responds after just 1 flow limited breath and will move up by as much as 2.5 cmwp. If needed the algorithm setting can be changed to the standard AutoSetAutoSet™ algorithm version. "

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Re: Resmed 10 for women vs regular version

Post by chunkyfrog » Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:44 pm

Both models are exactly the same except the For Her has an extra setting for those who might need it.
(us girls, they assume) --and a pretty white cabinet with flowers. They are even the same price.

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Demerit

Re: Resmed 10 for women vs regular version

Post by Demerit » Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:12 am

It has the same pressure. It is white. IMHO it looks much cheaper, almost fisher pricey. Not sure how it would look after 5 years of use.

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Re: Resmed 10 for women vs regular version

Post by cathyf » Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:09 am

I suspect that the differences are purely marketing and not technical. And that there were some meetings worthy of a Dilbert cartoon at ResMed.

What I'm curious about is whether ResMed has the technical capability to upgrade the software on the regular A10 so that it is a ForHer A10. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they can. If the ForHer algorithm turns out to be generally superior once the machine is in widespread use, then they could sell an upgrade to people like me who got the regular A10 because the ForHer was on back order and I didn't want to wait.

Everyone is aware that if you have an A10 it's "phoning home" every morning and dumping your data to ResMed, right? The company has the interest and the technical skills to use that data to do real research...

Anemone

Re: Resmed 10 for women vs regular version

Post by Anemone » Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:22 am

Thank you for your replies. I will go read all the info behind the links that have been provided.

But ... if it basically works in the same way, other than perhaps reacting a bit faster to first signs of apnea, why do they say it is for "women with mild to moderate' apnea. Why would it not work for women with severe apnea?

And yes, always irked by companies that sell me a product to get my data. Just last week I saw a 'news report' on sleeping habits in the US based on Jawbone data. Weight Watchers also hope people will log what they eat, how the excercise and lose weight. No! You want to know this about it, pay me. Why should I pay you for the favor? Same with the new apps that come with the latest Iphone OS. But in this case, if it helps one of the reputable manufacturers of a machine I need to stay healthy then I'm just investing in my own future so I'm willing to give something to big brother - plus reading data on cellphone appeals to me, even if it does mean I will have to keep buying one ;0)

And good point on the machine being white, as white quickly turns beige, then yellow...

Thanks again!

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Re: Resmed 10 for women vs regular version

Post by Pugsy » Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:34 am

Anemone wrote:Why would it not work for women with severe apnea?
It will still work for anyone with whatever category OSA they have. They are trying to make women feel special like we need "softer and gentler' pressure delivery and maybe some women do...maybe some men do.
Maybe they don't but it's nice to have both apap modes available to both sexes just in case someone sleeps better and feels better with one mode over an another. Having choices never hurts.

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Re: Resmed 10 for women vs regular version

Post by cathyf » Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:11 am

It's the whole "special for her" and "special for mild/moderate" that I think is just kind of nuts. As users of these machines, we know that there are all sorts of little features & tweaks -- ramp, EPR, humidifier settings, min/max pressures on an APAP, manufacturer's algorithm, etc. -- where everyone is different, you can only figure out what works best with some trial & error, and what works and doesn't work for a person doesn't necessarily have any relationship with the things that they measure in a sleep study.

I think it's a big mistake for them to brand this "For Her" when ResMed has already established that brand to mean "colored pink but otherwise the same." But then, in a Dilbert cartoon I'm more like Dilbert & Alice (ok, maybe more like Wally) than the marketing dept drones...

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Re: Resmed 10 for women vs regular version

Post by Davidwnc » Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:14 am

Anemone wrote:Weight Watchers also hope people will log what they eat, how the excercise and lose weight. No! You want to know this about it, pay me. Why should I pay you for the favor? Same with the new apps that come with the latest Iphone OS. But in this case, if it helps one of the reputable manufacturers of a machine I need to stay healthy then I'm just investing in my own future so I'm willing to give something to big brother
Isn't the goal of Weight Watchers also to help you get/stay healthy? If so, then why the difference?

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Re: Resmed 10 for women vs regular version

Post by sleepstar » Sat Oct 18, 2014 1:40 pm

cathyf wrote:I suspect that the differences are purely marketing and not technical. And that there were some meetings worthy of a Dilbert cartoon at ResMed.

What I'm curious about is whether ResMed has the technical capability to upgrade the software on the regular A10 so that it is a ForHer A10. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they can. If the ForHer algorithm turns out to be generally superior once the machine is in widespread use, then they could sell an upgrade to people like me who got the regular A10 because the ForHer was on back order and I didn't want to wait.

Everyone is aware that if you have an A10 it's "phoning home" every morning and dumping your data to ResMed, right? The company has the interest and the technical skills to use that data to do real research...
There's published research that it isn't just marketing.

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Re: Resmed 10 for women vs regular version

Post by sleepstar » Sat Oct 18, 2014 1:58 pm

cathyf wrote:I suspect that the differences are purely marketing and not technical. And that there were some meetings worthy of a Dilbert cartoon at ResMed.

What I'm curious about is whether ResMed has the technical capability to upgrade the software on the regular A10 so that it is a ForHer A10. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they can. If the ForHer algorithm turns out to be generally superior once the machine is in widespread use, then they could sell an upgrade to people like me who got the regular A10 because the ForHer was on back order and I didn't want to wait.

Everyone is aware that if you have an A10 it's "phoning home" every morning and dumping your data to ResMed, right? The company has the interest and the technical skills to use that data to do real research...
Autoset for her can be set in normal autoset but I don't think there's any intention to do the reverse.

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Re: Resmed 10 for women vs regular version

Post by cathyf » Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:12 pm

Sleepstar, I'm not saying that the different algorithms are some marketing fiction. What I am saying is that it looks like a classic marketers vs techie argument where the techies lost. The techie argument would be that you have one A10 machine at one price that can run all 3 modes, and call the modes by gender neutral names. Like instead of calling it the "ForHer" algorithm, call it "GentleResponse" or "NimbleUp" and call the old algorithm something like "PowerUp" or "StrongReax". Just like all of the other adjustable settings, let people experiment and choose.

I'm pretty sure that the hardware between the two machines is exactly the same, except for the black vs the white leafy plastic casing. And once the software is written it doesn't cost any more to put it on the machine. Which is why the two versions of the machine cost exactly the same. I think that what will happen is that in real life lots of women will find that the old algorithm works better for them and not use the ForHer algorithm, while many men who would do better on the ForHer algorithm will be denied the chance to find out because of the sexist packaging.

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Re: Resmed 10 for women vs regular version

Post by sleepstar » Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:57 am

cathyf wrote:Sleepstar, I'm not saying that the different algorithms are some marketing fiction. What I am saying is that it looks like a classic marketers vs techie argument where the techies lost. The techie argument would be that you have one A10 machine at one price that can run all 3 modes, and call the modes by gender neutral names. Like instead of calling it the "ForHer" algorithm, call it "GentleResponse" or "NimbleUp" and call the old algorithm something like "PowerUp" or "StrongReax". Just like all of the other adjustable settings, let people experiment and choose.

I'm pretty sure that the hardware between the two machines is exactly the same, except for the black vs the white leafy plastic casing. And once the software is written it doesn't cost any more to put it on the machine. Which is why the two versions of the machine cost exactly the same. I think that what will happen is that in real life lots of women will find that the old algorithm works better for them and not use the ForHer algorithm, while many men who would do better on the ForHer algorithm will be denied the chance to find out because of the sexist packaging.
I understand. I'm interested to hear from anyone who has used it if it has been good for them. On average, the pressure delivered by the ForHer is lower than the other s10 (in the research). So women might prefer it based on that. Time will tell