"Pop" effect makes it hard to fall asleep

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
TyroneShoes
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"Pop" effect makes it hard to fall asleep

Post by TyroneShoes » Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:37 pm

I noticed this once on the first night, then not for two weeks, but lately as I begin to breathe out I get a "pop".

It's hard to describe; I can't hear it but I sure feel it. It is as if someone removed the hose from the humidifier and then held it with one hand while slapping their hand against the end. It is as if the back pressure just gets impossible to breathe against for a split second, as if I am trying to breathe into a closed volume, and then everything is normal. Which is nuts because that volume is never closed and air is constantly flowing out of the little grid holes just where the hose connects to my swift fx nps. Imagine putting an empty water bottle in your mouth and trying to blow hard into it; that is what it feels like. Not exactly what you have in mind as you are trying to get to sleep.

Breathing harder, softer, faster, slower doesn't appear to have any effect on when it happens, which is about every 10-15 breaths.

Honestly, I'm not sure if this is something happening in the machine, or in me!

This is a s9 autoset with 5-20, EPR at 3/full time, APAP.

Any idea what might be going on here?

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Re: "Pop" effect makes it hard to fall asleep

Post by Guest » Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:46 pm

Sounds like you have water in the hose. You could take the hose off at the humidifier to see. Once you are certain simply lift the hose to run the water back into the humidifier. Turning down the humidifier will stop the water from collecting in the hose.

TyroneShoes
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Re: "Pop" effect makes it hard to fall asleep

Post by TyroneShoes » Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:06 pm

Sorry; ClimateLine heated hose, dry as a bone.

That would make sense, tho, otherwise. Good thought.

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Re: "Pop" effect makes it hard to fall asleep

Post by Guest » Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:11 pm

TyroneShoes wrote:Sorry; ClimateLine heated hose, dry as a bone.

That would make sense, tho, otherwise. Good thought.
A mask can make a popping sound also. Which mask are you using?

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RogerSC
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Re: "Pop" effect makes it hard to fall asleep

Post by RogerSC » Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:13 pm

Do you have "SmartStart" on? I don't know if what you're experiencing relates to that, but if your machine has "SmartStart" enabled, try turning it off and turn on the machine manually after putting your mask on.

That's all that comes to mind for me *smile*. Other than a broken cpap. Been using an S9 for almost 3 years now and haven't experienced that. But I don't use "SmartStart".

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TangledHose
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Re: "Pop" effect makes it hard to fall asleep

Post by TangledHose » Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:36 pm

TyroneShoes wrote:
This is a s9 autoset with 5-20, EPR at 3/full time, APAP.

Any idea what might be going on here?

This is a bit of a shot in the dark with your problem, you should not run the auto mode "wide open" like you have it set. With such a low pressure on the low range the machine wll struggle to stop an Apnea and may really never catch up to the pressure it needs because it starting from such a low point - it's possible this wide open pressure range you have set could be agrivating this pop issue you have. As an example my sleep study indicated a fixed CPAP pressure of 12 for me, so when I run in apap mode I have 10 cm as my low setting and 13 cm set as the high pressure. That is a much more efficient way to run in auto mode, better for the machine to react properly to an event. Usually people will look at their 90 percent or 95 percent pressure (depending on which machine) as a reference point for setting up a tighter pressure range than wide open, so say your 95 percent pressure your machine is reporting might be 9 cm.......then you could set your low at 8 cm and your high around 10 cm as an example of where to start.....kind of bracket that 95 percent reported pressure.

This may or may not have anything to do with your machine problem, but regardless you should try to tighten up your pressure range so that the machine can operate for you as designed.

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Wulfman...
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Re: "Pop" effect makes it hard to fall asleep

Post by Wulfman... » Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:52 pm

TyroneShoes wrote:I noticed this once on the first night, then not for two weeks, but lately as I begin to breathe out I get a "pop".

It's hard to describe; I can't hear it but I sure feel it. It is as if someone removed the hose from the humidifier and then held it with one hand while slapping their hand against the end. It is as if the back pressure just gets impossible to breathe against for a split second, as if I am trying to breathe into a closed volume, and then everything is normal. Which is nuts because that volume is never closed and air is constantly flowing out of the little grid holes just where the hose connects to my swift fx nps. Imagine putting an empty water bottle in your mouth and trying to blow hard into it; that is what it feels like. Not exactly what you have in mind as you are trying to get to sleep.

Breathing harder, softer, faster, slower doesn't appear to have any effect on when it happens, which is about every 10-15 breaths.

Honestly, I'm not sure if this is something happening in the machine, or in me!

This is a s9 autoset with 5-20, EPR at 3/full time, APAP.

Any idea what might be going on here?
Methinks your answer is in that wide-open setup and with that EPR setting.


Den

.
(5) REMstar Autos w/C-Flex & (6) REMstar Pro 2 CPAPs w/C-Flex - Pressure Setting = 14 cm.
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palerider
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Re: "Pop" effect makes it hard to fall asleep

Post by palerider » Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:05 pm

Wulfman... wrote:
TyroneShoes wrote:I noticed this once on the first night, then not for two weeks, but lately as I begin to breathe out I get a "pop".

Breathing harder, softer, faster, slower doesn't appear to have any effect on when it happens, which is about every 10-15 breaths.

Honestly, I'm not sure if this is something happening in the machine, or in me!

This is a s9 autoset with 5-20, EPR at 3/full time, APAP.

Any idea what might be going on here?
Methinks your answer is in that wide-open setup and with that EPR setting.
I can't see how that would have anything to do with it, but we'd have to see some charts, and some correlation as to what time it was happening.

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DeadlySleep
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Re: "Pop" effect makes it hard to fall asleep

Post by DeadlySleep » Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:07 pm

I get a "pop".
Do you have the right size hose selected in the machine menu?

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palerider
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Re: "Pop" effect makes it hard to fall asleep

Post by palerider » Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:11 pm

DeadlySleep wrote:
I get a "pop".
Do you have the right size hose selected in the machine menu?
oh, yeah, and mask type, and ab filter on/off, all three affect end pressure at the mask.

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Pugsy
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Re: "Pop" effect makes it hard to fall asleep

Post by Pugsy » Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:14 pm

DeadlySleep wrote: Do you have the right size hose selected in the machine menu?
I wondered about this also but he says he is using the ClimateLine hose which should be auto detected if and when it is plugged in properly and default to that selection but it would 't hurt to check to confirm.
palerider wrote: I can't see how that would have anything to do with it, but we'd have to see some charts, and some correlation as to what time it was happening.
I also can't see how the wide open settings will have anything to do with it because the pressure shouldn't change while awake anyway. I got the impression that this was something that was noticed while awake and not while asleep but maybe I got the wrong impression. The pressure itself shouldn't change from the minimum until some sort of airway collapse triggers the change and that shouldn't happen while awake.

I can't think of anything that might explain it but I also admit that what is being described is difficult for me to picture in my mind. Especially since it is intermittent.

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Christine L
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Re: "Pop" effect makes it hard to fall asleep

Post by Christine L » Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:14 pm

What's an ab filter?

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Christine L
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Re: "Pop" effect makes it hard to fall asleep

Post by Christine L » Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:16 pm

"Pop" effect makes it hard to fall asleep
Maybe he is a new father? That could be a problem sleeping.

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Wulfman...
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Re: "Pop" effect makes it hard to fall asleep

Post by Wulfman... » Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:18 pm

palerider wrote:
Wulfman... wrote:
TyroneShoes wrote:I noticed this once on the first night, then not for two weeks, but lately as I begin to breathe out I get a "pop".

Breathing harder, softer, faster, slower doesn't appear to have any effect on when it happens, which is about every 10-15 breaths.

Honestly, I'm not sure if this is something happening in the machine, or in me!

This is a s9 autoset with 5-20, EPR at 3/full time, APAP.

Any idea what might be going on here?
Methinks your answer is in that wide-open setup and with that EPR setting.
I can't see how that would have anything to do with it, but we'd have to see some charts, and some correlation as to what time it was happening.
This is what I was thinking of. But, I'm not that knowledgeable about the ResMed EPR and what it would feel like if it was suspended or timed out.
But, some of those other settings could be the culprits as well.
I initially suspected "water in the hose".


Den


Event Detection Circuit
The Event Detection Circuit is a backup feature of the EPR algorithm. Changes in a patient's sleeping position or sleep stage (ie, REM sleep) may cause sudden, unpredictable events to occur without the typical preceding flow limitation or snoring. When such an event is detected, EPR immediately suspends, and the treatment pressure reverts to set CPAP. EPR remains suspended until the event concludes and normal breathing resumes.

EPR Timeout
If a patient's exhalation period exceeds 15 seconds, EPR immediately suspends. The treatment pressure reverts to set CPAP and remains suspended until the next inhalation phase is detected. EPR helps patients experience the highest level of comfort and benefit from their therapy.

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(5) REMstar Autos w/C-Flex & (6) REMstar Pro 2 CPAPs w/C-Flex - Pressure Setting = 14 cm.
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palerider
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Re: "Pop" effect makes it hard to fall asleep

Post by palerider » Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:33 pm

Christine L wrote:What's an ab filter?
I wondered the same thing when I first saw the menu setting.

it's AntiBacterial, they're filters generally a bit smaller than a tennis ball that fit in the hose and filter out even more crud. archangle will be along shortly to tell you to ignore all the advice from people that sell then and that he thinks they're worthless and shouldn't be used for more than one night, no matter what the nice folks at cpap.com say.

he is of course, perfectly welcome to his opinion.

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