Surgery

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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Pugsy
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Re: Surgery

Post by Pugsy » Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:36 pm

Hmmm.. OSA is caused by the collapse of the airway tissues in the airway...and not in the nose.
If obstructive sleep apnea is the correct diagnosis...fixing the nose isn't going to fix the airway tissues. Fixing the airway tissues behind the soft palate and tongue...that's a whole different surgery.

Or were you thinking that fixing the nose issues would make the cpap therapy more optimal and not thinking doing the surgery instead of using the cpap therapy?

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Ogeo
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Re: Surgery

Post by Ogeo » Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:06 pm

Greg Riddle wrote:If your not sure try to take care of the allergies first. I can't say how nice it is to finally get some relief from those dam dust mites. And not have to take two allergy pills a day
I would not have thought about this until recently. I started having breathing problems in the day and the usual asthma medicine wasn't working. That is when the doc ordered some test which included the sleep test and allergy testing. I knew I was allergic to grasses, cigarettes, perfumes, etc. but was really surprised at the results. I am allergic to chicken and baker's yeast plus some other things like blue #2. When I stopped eating those foods, my nose has cleared up and I'm able to breathe through it all the time for the first time in my life. It is an amazing feeling! My headaches I've had almost everyday of my life stopped too. No one in my family has ever had food allergies to my knowledge so this was definitely a surprise. So this last month, I have made drastic changes in my life with my eating habits (reading every label) and getting used to my AutoSV.

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library lady
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Re: Surgery

Post by library lady » Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:51 pm

You have been having trouble with leaking around the eyes. If you haven't tried mask liners, you could try them. They helped me not with just leaking around eyes but the noisy face farts.. and liners helped me get to sleep and then sleep through the night. The liners did not stop the leaking entirely, but it did calm them to the point that they don't bother my eyes or make loud noises. Many people have found them to be very helpful for both problems as well as sores on nose bridge or excessive redness or skin breakouts. Pad-A-Cheek has nice ones, go to http://www.padacheek.com, or find RemZzzs at https://www.cpap.com. Many DMEs also carry the RemZzzs.

Some people who tried liners didn't like them... but they are certainly worth a try IMO.

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Greg Riddle
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Re: Surgery

Post by Greg Riddle » Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:04 am

Pugsy wrote:Hmmm.. OSA is caused by the collapse of the airway tissues in the airway...and not in the nose.
If obstructive sleep apnea is the correct diagnosis...fixing the nose isn't going to fix the airway tissues. Fixing the airway tissues behind the soft palate and tongue...that's a whole different surgery.

Or were you thinking that fixing the nose issues would make the cpap therapy more optimal and not thinking doing the surgery instead of using the cpap therapy?
I'm not thinking about just the nose. My nose is fine now.

The splints that they use go in very far. Just shy of touching the back of your throat. They are about 4 inches long. That's the area I'm thinking about. It really doesn't matter until I talk to ent
Last edited by Greg Riddle on Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Surgery

Post by Greg Riddle » Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:08 am

Ogeo wrote:
Greg Riddle wrote:If your not sure try to take care of the allergies first. I can't say how nice it is to finally get some relief from those dam dust mites. And not have to take two allergy pills a day
I would not have thought about this until recently. I started having breathing problems in the day and the usual asthma medicine wasn't working. That is when the doc ordered some test which included the sleep test and allergy testing. I knew I was allergic to grasses, cigarettes, perfumes, etc. but was really surprised at the results. I am allergic to chicken and baker's yeast plus some other things like blue #2. When I stopped eating those foods, my nose has cleared up and I'm able to breathe through it all the time for the first time in my life. It is an amazing feeling! My headaches I've had almost everyday of my life stopped too. No one in my family has ever had food allergies to my knowledge so this was definitely a surprise. So this last month, I have made drastic changes in my life with my eating habits (reading every label) and getting used to my AutoSV.
Allergies are a real pain. I was tested and was only allergic to one thing. Unfortunately I can't avoid dust mites

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Re: Surgery

Post by Greg Riddle » Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:09 am

library lady wrote:You have been having trouble with leaking around the eyes. If you haven't tried mask liners, you could try them. They helped me not with just leaking around eyes but the noisy face farts.. and liners helped me get to sleep and then sleep through the night. The liners did not stop the leaking entirely, but it did calm them to the point that they don't bother my eyes or make loud noises. Many people have found them to be very helpful for both problems as well as sores on nose bridge or excessive redness or skin breakouts. Pad-A-Cheek has nice ones, go to http://www.padacheek.com, or find RemZzzs at https://www.cpap.com. Many DMEs also carry the RemZzzs.

Some people who tried liners didn't like them... but they are certainly worth a try IMO.
Of the next mask doesn't work I will try the liners

bigfrank99
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Re: Surgery

Post by bigfrank99 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:40 am

Five years ago I was diagnosed with osa . I had septoplasy and tuberation. I must have been 1 of the 15% of patients that this procedure affected my osa symptoms to the point that I never used cpap and felted fine. About 5 months ago my osa returned and I am on cpap for the last month. It's hard to adjust as I suffer from insomnia and minor allergies. I returned to my surgeon just to be sure their wasn't another surgical procedure that could help. He said in his opinion there wasn't anything he could do to help me if I wanted surgery to fix my osa to the point where I didn't need cpap. He examined me and said the effects of the surgery he did have not reversed....I just have osa now . I trust his diagnosis and have accepted cpap is what I need to make work for me. My surgery has allowed me to use nasal pillows in stead of full mask since before surgery I was a mouth breather and now can go nasal as long as I control nasal congestion. The septoplasty was worth it for that reason alone. For me I have acceoted that there is no surgery that can help me with osa...

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archangle
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Re: Surgery

Post by archangle » Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:05 am

Try an Oracle oralmask. It's a bit of a bear to get used to, but your nose isn't involved at all. In fact, most people actually put nose plugs in their nose when they start using it.

Basically, it's like a SCUBA mouthpiece. If you can adapt to it, a narrow nose won't matter.

The problems with it are keeping air from coming out of your nose, getting dry mouth and throat, and getting used to the feeling of not breathing through your nose.

The big trick to making it more convenient and comfortable is to learn to use it without nose plugs or nose clips. You need to close off the back of the nose with the soft palate like when you blow up a balloon, and learn to sleep like that. I found the pressure sort of helped keep the nose closed off and I could sleep. However, the dryness bothered me so much I don't use it, but I do OK with a nasal mask, so I didn't need to use the oral mask.

As for surgery, be skeptical of the ENT. Even if he's not consciously being dishonest, doctors tend to have delusions of grandeur, and the financial incentive does affect their thinking process.

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49er
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Re: Surgery

Post by 49er » Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:19 am

Totally agree Sheriff.

Also, what people are forgetting is that if cpap isn't working after many months of trying and dental devices have not been successful, even surgery with low success rates still has better odds than not doing anything at all, particularly if the apnea is severe. Additionally, I am convinced that many failures are due to people going to surgeons who don't carefully select patients for the right surgery and just pitch anything come heck or high water.

49er
Sheriff Buford wrote:A similar thread was posted here about a month or two ago. I got lambasted for my response, but it was my opinion, and I'm a big boy, so expect me to get beaten up on my response to you. To me, cpap therapy is the last resort. I wear a mask every night because it works, it has added years to my life and I feel like a human being again. I saw a surgeon and I wasn't convinced that surgery for me would be successful. I've seen folks put off surgeries (including myself) and kick themselves later on for the delay. You yourself have had successful nose surgery. Yes, there are horror stories, but there is also a boat-load full of successful stories... like yourself. If I was sitting across from a competent doctor that was convinced that he could cure me of sleep apnea (with a surgery)... I'd do in a New York second. When I was talking to my surgeon, he wasn't that convincing. My advice to you: a doctor is convinced he can cure you... get the surgery and drop-kick this dang machine into the next county. Err... don't do that... there are too many folks that cannot afford a machine.

Bring it on ... I'm locked and loaded....

Sheriff

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Sheriff Buford
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Re: Surgery

Post by Sheriff Buford » Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:45 am

Dang... never expected this response....

Sheriff

musculus
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Re: Surgery

Post by musculus » Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:35 am

Why not try Afrin for two nights (allegra or other allergy pills before sleep; with CPAP as well) and see if you can have your energy back? If so, then you are very sure the nose is the bottleneck of your airway.

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Re: Surgery

Post by Greg Riddle » Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:15 am

musculus wrote:Why not try Afrin for two nights (allegra or other allergy pills before sleep; with CPAP as well) and see if you can have your energy back? If so, then you are very sure the nose is the bottleneck of your airway.
I have tried afrin before I had surgery. It worked quite well and I did wake up the next day tested and full of energy. My issue more is the rebound from it. I don't want to enlarge the turbineate an more than the already naturally do. The rebound from the nasal spray is really bad. But it does prove that. Most of my problem it's in the nasal passages behind my nose

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Re: Surgery

Post by palerider » Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:57 am

Greg Riddle wrote: I have tried afrin before I had surgery. It worked quite well and I did wake up the next day tested and full of energy. My issue more is the rebound from it.
one of my doctors said that if you only use it before bed, the rebound effect is greatly dimished. she was a sharp one, so I tended to believe things she said, top marks in medical school.

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Re: Surgery

Post by musculus » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:09 am

Greg Riddle wrote:
musculus wrote:Why not try Afrin for two nights (allegra or other allergy pills before sleep; with CPAP as well) and see if you can have your energy back? If so, then you are very sure the nose is the bottleneck of your airway.
I have tried afrin before I had surgery. It worked quite well and I did wake up the next day tested and full of energy. My issue more is the rebound from it. I don't want to enlarge the turbineate an more than the already naturally do. The rebound from the nasal spray is really bad. But it does prove that. Most of my problem it's in the nasal passages behind my nose
Then the option is limited if you don't want to pursue another turbinate reduction. I had turbinate reduction (the third one, had septoplasty as well) just 40 days ago and felt great for 3 days and then went back to normal. My ENT said he would trim the turbinate bone only, not the soft tissues. I am not allergic to anything but just have a narrow nasal passage. I do have a surgery (MMA) coming that will require an expansion of the palate which will enlarge the nasal airway volume. Hopefully that will address the nasal obstruction.

Do you have sinus CT done before or after your surgery? It will show clearly where the bottleneck is.

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Re: Surgery

Post by Greg Riddle » Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:03 pm

palerider wrote:
Greg Riddle wrote: I have tried afrin before I had surgery. It worked quite well and I did wake up the next day tested and full of energy. My issue more is the rebound from it.
one of my doctors said that if you only use it before bed, the rebound effect is greatly dimished. she was a sharp one, so I tended to believe things she said, top marks in medical school.
I have used it like that before the rebound isn't as bad but after a few weeks it starts getting worse