Full Face masks becoming the default?

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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ChicagoGranny
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Re: Full Face masks becoming the default?

Post by ChicagoGranny » Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:52 am

englandsf wrote:.. I found this board, got the idea to try nasal rinsing then was able to switch to pillows.

You're right the sleep doc should have much more input on the set up process but they don't make money on the equipment so...
Well, it sounds like in the meantime YOU have taken control of your therapy.

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Re: Full Face masks becoming the default?

Post by palerider » Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:53 am

ChicagoGranny wrote:
englandsf wrote:Browsing this board it seems to me that many people are starting their CPAP life with full face masks - but I can't tell if that's the "standard operating procedure" for DME's nowadays.
If you have a titration study, the sleep lab will fit you with the mask they think is appropriate and a good sleep doc will include a recommendation for the type of mask.

Why are you allowing the DME to select the mask? Rely on the doc to start with and then make your own choice based on experience.
*falls over laughing*

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Re: Full Face masks becoming the default?

Post by Wulfman... » Fri Sep 19, 2014 12:27 pm

I dunno. I see lots of people on the forum using nasal masks.......particularly nasal pillows these days.

From my readings about the equipment for this therapy (before I had my sleep study), I went into it knowing I would want/need to use a full face mask. The gal doing the sleep study asked me what type of mask I wanted and we picked out a full face. My pre-therapy research also led me to the ResMed Ultra Mirage Full Face. That's what I started with......and have stayed with it ever since. I've tried a couple of others along the way (Respironics Comfortfull 2 and ResMed Quattro), but the UMFF is far and away my favorite. In fact, I've never even had the desire to try a nasal mask. To me, if I had to tape my mouth shut using a nasal mask, I wouldn't be gaining anything and that would probably make me feel claustrophobic.
I used to be a mouth-breather, but with a full face mask and cool/"passover" humidification, it's not a problem now when I'm sleeping.


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Ogeo
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Re: Full Face masks becoming the default?

Post by Ogeo » Fri Sep 19, 2014 12:47 pm

49er wrote:Hi Ogeo,

How do you know you are a mouth breather with high pressure? Did you try a nasal pillow or nasal mask?
I have had allergies my whole life. I just recently went through allergy testing and will be taking a series of shots to help. I have an appointment Monday to get started on that. I am allergic to chicken and baker's yeast, things I've eaten my whole life plus other allergies. I breathe through my mouth and nose while awake and have as long as I remember. I have started on OTC allergy medicine and already my nose is open so I can breathe through it but I do wake up with my mouth so dry I couldn't move my tongue and my cheeks were stuck to my teeth. I've been told that is a sign that I'm breathing through my mouth while asleep. I have not yet tried a nasal pillow or or nasal mask. In my on line research from the manufacturers, they are not recommended for high pressure.

Also, does your pressure range from 21 to 24 or are you saying it occasionally reaches those numbers? If that is the case, then nasal pillows will definitely work if you can use them comfortably. According to Sleepyhead, the min IPAP has been 21. The Med ranges 21-22. The 90% is 21.80 to 24.80. And the max I've had is 24.90. I googled different nasal pillows and looked at the manuals for them online. Most have specifications that say the therapy pressure range is from 4 to 20 cm h2o. I was only going by that, not personal experience. Since my min is 21, I didn't think they would work.

Regarding full face masks, have you tried liners? They didn't work for me but they seem to do for quite a few people.
I have tried liners, I have tried pad a cheek for the Mirage Quattro FFM, I have tried tightening and I've tried loosening. No matter what I've done, I wake up with the leakage, either blowing hard on me or blurping loudly.
49er

Thanks for all the suggestions though. If you have other suggestions to try, let me know. I am going to try a nasal pillow and see how that goes. I already have a chin strap reading to go.
Ogeo wrote:I would love to try a nasal mask or pillows but from what I've read, with my high pressure ranging from 21 to 24 with my ASV, they would not work. I am having a terrible time finding a FFmask that I like and that doesn't leak like a sieve. At this time, I had more hours sleep each night before I knew I had sleep apnea. I will be going back to the DME again on Monday to see what else they have available.

When I got a copy of my Rx, I noticed the sleep doc had put on the Rx a specific mask, "Med AirFit Full Face Mask". The F10 is the one I used in my second titration study that I complained about leaking like crazy. They actually woke me up twice more during the night to adjust the mask. And that is the one that the doc (whom I never met) put on my rx. Luckily, the DME, has supplied other masks, but still no luck. I thought the Rx had to be generic to supply other types. Oh well. I'm a mouth breather with high pressure - what choice do I have? I am working on training myself not to breathe through my mouth, but that will take awhile.

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Julie
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Re: Full Face masks becoming the default?

Post by Julie » Fri Sep 19, 2014 12:54 pm

+ 1

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Sir NoddinOff
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Re: Full Face masks becoming the default?

Post by Sir NoddinOff » Fri Sep 19, 2014 12:55 pm

I started with Swift FX nasal pillows, then after a year went to the Wisp nasal mask because of earaches from the Swift FX. Finally I couldn't stop mouth breathing (even mouth taping) and would get a weird blow-back effects with the Wisp. It got to be such a sleep disturbing event that I ended up trying the Quattro FX FFM, which I used for almost a year. Sadly, that mask is a well known little F*&#@R of a leak monster, so I was pretty happy to ditch it a few months ago for the new ResMed AirFit F10. I'm pretty happy with it so far and I've noted that the F10 cushions appear to last TWO TO THREE TIME LONGER THAN THE QFX CUSHIONS. If you go FFM try the AirFit F10 first.

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Re: Full Face masks becoming the default?

Post by Kennerly » Fri Sep 19, 2014 1:12 pm

Someone above wrote:

I
"Im sure the profit margin is higher on nasal masks."

My guess would be that the most profit would come from the priciest masks, and this may have something to do with the large number of folks who are first supplied with the Mirage Quattro. I really don't think it is a bad idea starting people out with a ffm since most people will need one when they have a cold anyway.

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Re: Full Face masks becoming the default?

Post by Sleepysuz » Fri Sep 19, 2014 2:00 pm

My DME was patient trying to fit me w pillow in the shop but it made me want to open my mouth to exhaust the air even at 4. Felt like I was in a wind tunnel
The Airfit F10 was pierced once I got the correct size and learned how tight to make it

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Re: Full Face masks becoming the default?

Post by Paralel » Fri Sep 19, 2014 2:09 pm

ChicagoGranny wrote:
I am a hard core mouth breather
If a chin strap and chin-ups work, then you are not hard core.
I've actually gotten to the point where I can defeat the chin strap by apparently opening my mouth with enough force... I had hoped it would take longer for my body to find a way to get around it.

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Re: Full Face masks becoming the default?

Post by Sheriff Buford » Fri Sep 19, 2014 2:18 pm

DME's don't behave. If you think of it that way, they are easier to deal with...

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musculus
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Re: Full Face masks becoming the default?

Post by musculus » Fri Sep 19, 2014 3:19 pm

IMO FFM is the best when a high pressure is needed.

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Re: Full Face masks becoming the default?

Post by angeltink » Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:55 pm

I am a newbie who started therapy 7/10/17. I was given the wisp mask at my titration study and the tech told me the most important thing for me would be finding a mask I am comfortable with when I go to the DME. At our local DME I was told a pressure of 13 was too much for nasal pillows, but I see here that is not true. She kept trying to push me to full face mask saying that is what most people have the best luck with. I told her no way that if I could not get the nasal pillows I wanted the wisp that worked for me during my sleep study. So I have been using the wisp and love it but really want to try pillows next time. I am hoping she doesn't tell me I can't use them with my pressure again so will have to find the info saying they can be used with a pressure of 13 and will bring that in with me.

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Re: Full Face masks becoming the default?

Post by zoocrewphoto » Sat Sep 20, 2014 12:54 am

Goofproof wrote:I don't think DME's push Full Face masks, I wish they were smart enough to push them. Many of us using XPAP mouthbreath, by pushing Nasal Masks only to mouthbreathers, they are dooming them to poor treatment. Making them into the vast number of failed XPAP users.

In reality, we all need both types of masks that work, and a full data machine to get our treatment correct, and even know the difference. JIM

Very true. One of the reasons I went years knowing I had sleep apnea but refused to get a sleep study was because I thought you had to use a nasal mask. I do not breathe through my nose when I lay down, so I knew that was impossible. I only considered a sleep study when I was told I could use a full face mask.

The sleep tech asked if I thought I was a nasal breather or a mouth breather. I told her mouth definitely. She picked out a quattro fx and fitted it so well that I slept 5 hours straight with it and no leaks. When I went to the DME, I went in with a printout that had a photo of that mask. I knew what I wanted and never gave them a chance to suggest anything. I did struggle with leaks for awhile and later got a smaller headgear which solved my problem. But I knew from the beginning that this mask was for me since it had worked so well at the sleep study.

If people were require to try nasal pillows or a nasal mask first, a lot of us would drop out.

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Re: Full Face masks becoming the default?

Post by Pugsy » Sat Sep 20, 2014 5:12 am

angeltink wrote:At our local DME I was told a pressure of 13 was too much for nasal pillows, but I see here that is not true. She kept trying to push me to full face mask saying that is what most people have the best luck with. I told her no way that if I could not get the nasal pillows I wanted the wisp that worked for me during my sleep study. So I have been using the wisp and love it but really want to try pillows next time. I am hoping she doesn't tell me I can't use them with my pressure again so will have to find the info saying they can be used with a pressure of 13 and will bring that in with me.
Stick to your guns and make them give you a nasal pillow mask if that's what you want. That "nasal pillows can't be used with higher pressures" thing is just an old wives tale started by someone who didn't have a clue. There are people successfully using nasal pillow masks with pressures exceeding 20 cm. I myself often see pressures up to 22 cm and I sleep right through it and only know I hit those pressures when I see the reports.

Contrary to what some people will say those nasal pillows won't go flying across the bedroom like a balloon deflating...at the higher pressures. Yeah, maybe a little more of a challenge to get to seal but so's sealing a full face mask at higher pressures.

Pressure of 13...walk in the park for nasal pillows.

If you have the money and the mind to you can get your own nasal pillow mask. EBay is a good source for the most popular nasal pillow masks...just have to know which parts to get so you can build your own mask.
Send me a private message if you are interested in going that route and I will point out which parts you need.

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Re: Full Face masks becoming the default?

Post by chunkyfrog » Sat Sep 20, 2014 5:33 am

The ASSumption that FF masks are indispensable under so many circumstances is ridiculous.
My face is the wrong shape and size for a mirage Quattro, but that was what they sold me.
I am between sizes for the mirage micro, but guess what mask I was stuck with until it started moving my teeth!
I think we can depend on some DME's pushing the two or three obsolete styles they have stockpiled,
----instead of serving the patient.

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