Big Change when switching mask Help

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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Jay Aitchsee
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Re: Big Change when switching mask Help

Post by Jay Aitchsee » Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:11 am

fdw wrote:it's just that I've used a chin strap for nearly 20 years and only used a FFM for 1 day.
Well then, it most probably wasn't the addition of a chin strap that caused an increase in AHI. Again, I think you should continue with the FFM for a few days without changing anything (leave the chin strap in place) and see what happens.
fdw wrote:A little closer look and OAI's and pressure increases....still looks as if the machine is a little slow to the punch
I believe the pressure response to your obstructive apneas is normal. The machine raises the pressure after the apnea - not during.

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Last edited by Jay Aitchsee on Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:15 am, edited 2 times in total.

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palerider
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Re: Big Change when switching mask Help

Post by palerider » Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:14 am

Jay Aitchsee wrote:Your AHI at 3.5 wasn't terribly high. It could be just you body adjusting to another form of therapy (another theory). If I were you, I wouldn't change anything for a few nights, wear the FFM, and see what happens. If the pressure continually hits the upper setting, you could increase it after that.

Do you think your mouth would drop out of the FFM without the chinstrap? Or, do you mouth breathe to the extent of having extremely dry mouth? If not, I would consider not wearing it. There is a theory, similar to that which 49 mentioned, that chin straps also tend to pull the jaw back increasing the potential for obstructions.
that's another good point, give it a day or two.

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ChicagoGranny
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Re: Big Change when switching mask Help

Post by ChicagoGranny » Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:49 am

PailRider wrote:
I've found that my jaw seems to be a bit forward when using nasal pillows, ie, my lower teeth are meeting, or even slighty in front of my upper teeth when at pressure, while my lower teeth rest behind my upper teeth when I normally close my mouth.
This statement does not address the point I made. You are comparing jaw position with nasal pillows and without nasal pillows.

My point was comparing jaw position with chin strap and without chin strap. When you fall asleep, the jaw will do what it wants to do regardless of whether there is a chin strap or not. The only practical thing that works is a full taping of the lips.

I would also maintain that you don't know what position your jaw is in when you are sleeping. Your above sentence can only address positions while awake which can be consciously adjusted.

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Re: Big Change when switching mask Help

Post by palerider » Thu Sep 18, 2014 2:57 pm

ChicagoGranny wrote:
PailRider wrote:
I've found that my jaw seems to be a bit forward when using nasal pillows, ie, my lower teeth are meeting, or even slighty in front of my upper teeth when at pressure, while my lower teeth rest behind my upper teeth when I normally close my mouth.
This statement does not address the point I made. You are comparing jaw position with nasal pillows and without nasal pillows.

My point was comparing jaw position with chin strap and without chin strap. When you fall asleep, the jaw will do what it wants to do regardless of whether there is a chin strap or not. The only practical thing that works is a full taping of the lips.

I would also maintain that you don't know what position your jaw is in when you are sleeping. Your above sentence can only address positions while awake which can be consciously adjusted.
meh, still, something pushing back on the jaw is likely to have it further back than with it free floating.

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Re: Big Change when switching mask Help

Post by fdw » Thu Sep 18, 2014 3:04 pm

Could it simply be I was on my back more than usual?????????????

I will post tonights results tomorrow for everyone to ponder.
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ChicagoGranny
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Re: Big Change when switching mask Help

Post by ChicagoGranny » Thu Sep 18, 2014 3:15 pm

fdw wrote:Could it simply be I was on my back more than usual?????????????
Position is a significant factor in pressure requirements for many people. As you know, pressure requirements can be higher when on your back. REM sleep stage is another segment where pressure requirements can be significantly higher.

You seem to be grasping the tools (software) and analysis needed to get the therapy optimized.

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Re: Big Change when switching mask Help

Post by fdw » Thu Sep 18, 2014 4:12 pm

ChicagoGranny wrote:
fdw wrote:Could it simply be I was on my back more than usual?????????????
Position is a significant factor in pressure requirements for many people. As you know, pressure requirements can be higher when on your back. REM sleep stage is another segment where pressure requirements can be significantly higher.

You seem to be grasping the tools (software) and analysis needed to get the therapy optimized.
Just trying to feel better than I have been......and with the help of folks like you I'll get there.
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fdw
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Re: Big Change when switching mask Help

Post by fdw » Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:45 am

Looks like I still hit the Maximum (I did raise from 14.6. to 15.0) Now what?

Image
Last edited by fdw on Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:01 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Jay Aitchsee
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Re: Big Change when switching mask Help

Post by Jay Aitchsee » Fri Sep 19, 2014 5:03 am

fdw wrote:Looks like I still hit the Maximum (I did raise from 14.6. to 15.0) Now what?
Once, briefly, otherwise looks pretty good and your AHI came down. Previous advice still stands, leave it alone for a few days and see what happens.

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Pugsy
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Re: Big Change when switching mask Help

Post by Pugsy » Fri Sep 19, 2014 6:46 am

Hitting the maximum very briefly doesn't warrant worrying about it. Now if you hit it and pegged it out and stayed there for 2 or 3 hours...then we do something about it.

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Re: Big Change when switching mask Help

Post by VikingGnome » Fri Sep 19, 2014 9:25 am

ChicagoGranny wrote:
PailRider wrote:
I've found that my jaw seems to be a bit forward when using nasal pillows, ie, my lower teeth are meeting, or even slighty in front of my upper teeth when at pressure, while my lower teeth rest behind my upper teeth when I normally close my mouth.
This statement does not address the point I made. You are comparing jaw position with nasal pillows and without nasal pillows.

My point was comparing jaw position with chin strap and without chin strap. When you fall asleep, the jaw will do what it wants to do regardless of whether there is a chin strap or not. The only practical thing that works is a full taping of the lips.

I would also maintain that you don't know what position your jaw is in when you are sleeping. Your above sentence can only address positions while awake which can be consciously adjusted.
Jaw position changes significantly with chin strap, pressure on chin from FF, a dental device that pulls lower jaw forward, or just sleep on side of face forcing chin in. I found chin strap very uncomfortable causing aggravation of TMJ problems and increasing my AHI. MOUTH TAPING is not a good solution if the reason you are mouth breathing is that your nose is plugged up. I mouth breathe during night when congestion makes breathing through nose almost impossible. If I mouth tape, I'm desperately grabbing at the mouth tape to peel it off because I can't breathe and am suffocating. Mouth taping should only be used if your mouth just flops open and you can still breathe through your nose when it happens.

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Re: Big Change when switching mask Help

Post by ChicagoGranny » Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:24 am

VikingGnome wrote:
Jaw position changes significantly with chin strap, pressure on chin from FF
Are you making a general claim or are you just being specific to your own experience?

In either case, how do you know what is going one while you are asleep?

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fdw
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Re: Big Change when switching mask Help

Post by fdw » Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:27 pm

Leaving thing alone for a few days.....as suggested.

My wife got in line this morning (2:30AM) at the local Apple Store (Southlake) for the iPhone 6+ (the big one). I got there at 7 AM and (got one to) but we didn't get finish until 12:30 PM.
What a long day for her.......And me. Very long lines....sure hope it's worth it!!!!

I think I'll sleep good tonight.
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Re: Big Change when switching mask Help

Post by fdw » Sat Sep 20, 2014 8:56 am

After the 1st session I took off the chin strap and it looks like my pressure didn't get as high in the 2nd and 3rd session......very interesting data. Tonight I'll leave off the chin strap, it really didn't seem to bother me all that much and the leak and AHI were both lower in 2nd and 3rd session.

AHI
1st 3.39
2nd 1.65
3rd 1.30

Leak "Time over leak redline"
1st 0.056%
2nd 0.018%
3rd 0.00%

Image
ResMed AirSense S10 Autoset (Ins. Pur. 3/16/2016)
AutoCPAP 10-15 EPR 1.0 (Latest Sleep Study 3-7-16)
Started CPAP March 1995 with a pressure of 11.0

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Jay Aitchsee
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Re: Big Change when switching mask Help

Post by Jay Aitchsee » Sat Sep 20, 2014 10:06 am

Yes, Interesting. Let's see what happens. Does your sleep seem any different subjectively since switching masks, i.e, do you feel any better or worse? BTW, it looks like your graphs in the first posts off this thread are missing again.
fdw wrote:After the 1st session I took off the chin strap and it looks like my pressure didn't get as high in the 2nd and 3rd session......very interesting data. Tonight I'll leave off the chin strap, it really didn't seem to bother me all that much and the leak and AHI were both lower in 2nd and 3rd session.

AHI
1st 3.39
2nd 1.65
3rd 1.30

Leak "Time over leak redline"
1st 0.056%
2nd 0.018%
3rd 0.00%

Image

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