Don't Buy From Our Host, CPAP.com

[Julie]

Interesting point!

[49er]

Unfortunately, from a legal standpoint, you're conflating terms. Was the product "defective"? Or was it damaged at the time of sale? Or was it damaged during shipment?

If the product was damaged during shipment, it's likely the shipper's (UPS, Fed Ex, etc) responsibility to undertake an investigation and compensate you, assuming that shipping insurance coverage was part of the S&H.

If the product was defective (that is, has a latent defect), the retailer's terms of sale state that the customer must contact the manufacturer for warranty repairs. The retailer, in other words, provides no separate warranty or repair.

I can't speak to whether the retailer's policy is fair or not. The answer may depend whether it's normal practice in the DME industry. That being said, it appears that the retailer takes this position because it cannot resell DME that has been opened and/or used, due to health regulation-related concerns. (A good policy, by the way, because I don't want to buy a CPAP that's been used in someone else's house for even a day or two, given my problems with pet dander, mold, etc.) Therefore the retailer defers to the expertise of the manufacturer to determine whether the product is truly defective or whether the buyer is merely having buyer's remorse.

Another possibility is that the retailer sold you a product that it knew to be broken (that is, damaged as opposed to a latent defect). That's certainly possible, but it would be difficult to prove. Therefore, if you're dealing with a product that was damaged during shipment, you're better off working with the shipper, because the shipper will be in a superior position to investigate the claim with the retailer.

Good luck with your issue. Unfortunately finding a solution is not always easy. There are two sides to such issues: The consumer deserves delivery of a working product, but the retailer needs reasonable protection against return of goods that cannot be resold and, in some cases, against fraud, which has become all too prevalent in the US.

You've left out another option. That the user damaged the machine AFTER he received it and is trying to claim that it was "defective" upon use.

He also "claims" to have discussed it with techs from PR. We have absolutely no way of knowing whether that's true or not. In most case, actually being able to talk to the techs at those companies is "slim and none".

This is just another sham and an attempt to smear CPAP-dot-COM.


Den

.

Actually, I talked to tech from Devilbiss a few years ago when I felt I wasn't getting far in solving the problem with my SmartLink module that wasn't working. Guy tried very hard to solve my problem. So if Phil said he did talk to techs, I can believe it based on my experience.

49er

[49er]

I have learned that emailing the head of the company works wonders by googling the email address. Resulted in an insurance claim finally being paid after 3 unsuccessful calls to solve the problem.

Anyway, I hope Phil has contacted the Goodmans instead of wasting time responding to people on this thread.

49er

From my standpoint, I have a problem with public bashing of a company over a specific incident.

A few weeks back, I had a HORRIBLE HORRIBLE HORRIBLE experience with our Wireless company (notice I am not mentioning which company). I spent HOURS on the phone, got wrong information, was promised something, then told it couldn't be done, had an order cancelled by a manager, etc. I was beside myself with fury.

Never once did I consider going online and telling people how awful the company is. I took my complaints up the chain, by phone and email, PRIVATELY, and didn't make it my mission in life to publicly bash them.

And while I still have a problem with how my situation was handled, by proceeding the way I did, I finally got it fixed. And I continue doing business with them and am about to buy a new phone and commit to another 2-year contract.

That's how professional people handle problems.

[Wulfman...]

Unfortunately, from a legal standpoint, you're conflating terms. Was the product "defective"? Or was it damaged at the time of sale? Or was it damaged during shipment?

If the product was damaged during shipment, it's likely the shipper's (UPS, Fed Ex, etc) responsibility to undertake an investigation and compensate you, assuming that shipping insurance coverage was part of the S&H.

If the product was defective (that is, has a latent defect), the retailer's terms of sale state that the customer must contact the manufacturer for warranty repairs. The retailer, in other words, provides no separate warranty or repair.

I can't speak to whether the retailer's policy is fair or not. The answer may depend whether it's normal practice in the DME industry. That being said, it appears that the retailer takes this position because it cannot resell DME that has been opened and/or used, due to health regulation-related concerns. (A good policy, by the way, because I don't want to buy a CPAP that's been used in someone else's house for even a day or two, given my problems with pet dander, mold, etc.) Therefore the retailer defers to the expertise of the manufacturer to determine whether the product is truly defective or whether the buyer is merely having buyer's remorse.

Another possibility is that the retailer sold you a product that it knew to be broken (that is, damaged as opposed to a latent defect). That's certainly possible, but it would be difficult to prove. Therefore, if you're dealing with a product that was damaged during shipment, you're better off working with the shipper, because the shipper will be in a superior position to investigate the claim with the retailer.

Good luck with your issue. Unfortunately finding a solution is not always easy. There are two sides to such issues: The consumer deserves delivery of a working product, but the retailer needs reasonable protection against return of goods that cannot be resold and, in some cases, against fraud, which has become all too prevalent in the US.

You've left out another option. That the user damaged the machine AFTER he received it and is trying to claim that it was "defective" upon use.

He also "claims" to have discussed it with techs from PR. We have absolutely no way of knowing whether that's true or not. In most case, actually being able to talk to the techs at those companies is "slim and none".

This is just another sham and an attempt to smear CPAP-dot-COM.


Den

.

Actually, I talked to tech from Devilbiss a few years ago when I felt I wasn't getting far in solving the problem with my SmartLink module that wasn't working. Guy tried very hard to solve my problem. So if Phil said he did talk to techs, I can believe it based on my experience.

49er

I also spoke with one of the "medical" folks at Respironics in 2005. It was because my sleep doctor questioned the accuracy of the data collection of the machines and I wanted to hear from them first-hand. I also e-mailed them about the inaccuracy of their Encore Pro statistics numbers, but they pretty much told me to "F--K OFF" and that it was a program for the doctors and DMEs and NOT the users. In the subsequent years, I've read posts by folks who TRIED to talk to techs at the companies and were told to take the problem to their DME and deal with it that way.
I DID leave the door open with my "slim and none" comment. It may be possible, but highly unlikely.


Den

.

[old dude]

Unfortunately, from a legal standpoint, you're conflating terms. Was the product "defective"? Or was it damaged at the time of sale? Or was it damaged during shipment?

If the product was damaged during shipment, it's likely the shipper's (UPS, Fed Ex, etc) responsibility to undertake an investigation and compensate you, assuming that shipping insurance coverage was part of the S&H.

If the product was defective (that is, has a latent defect), the retailer's terms of sale state that the customer must contact the manufacturer for warranty repairs. The retailer, in other words, provides no separate warranty or repair.

I can't speak to whether the retailer's policy is fair or not. The answer may depend whether it's normal practice in the DME industry. That being said, it appears that the retailer takes this position because it cannot resell DME that has been opened and/or used, due to health regulation-related concerns. (A good policy, by the way, because I don't want to buy a CPAP that's been used in someone else's house for even a day or two, given my problems with pet dander, mold, etc.) Therefore the retailer defers to the expertise of the manufacturer to determine whether the product is truly defective or whether the buyer is merely having buyer's remorse.

Another possibility is that the retailer sold you a product that it knew to be broken (that is, damaged as opposed to a latent defect). That's certainly possible, but it would be difficult to prove. Therefore, if you're dealing with a product that was damaged during shipment, you're better off working with the shipper, because the shipper will be in a superior position to investigate the claim with the retailer.

Good luck with your issue. Unfortunately finding a solution is not always easy. There are two sides to such issues: The consumer deserves delivery of a working product, but the retailer needs reasonable protection against return of goods that cannot be resold and, in some cases, against fraud, which has become all too prevalent in the US.

You've left out another option. That the user damaged the machine AFTER he received it and is trying to claim that it was "defective" upon use.

He also "claims" to have discussed it with techs from PR. We have absolutely no way of knowing whether that's true or not. In most case, actually being able to talk to the techs at those companies is "slim and none".

This is just another sham and an attempt to smear CPAP-dot-COM.


Den

.

Your first comment had occurred to me as well.

By the way I too have routinely been able to speak directly with techs from ResMed after a small amount of jockeying around, and I've spoken to them at Devilbiss with no trouble at all. But I have NEVER been able to get one on the phone at PR, and I can be well, fairly relentless shall we say.

[palerider]

I'm beginning to understand the OP's problem, altho not the majority of his responses. My mommy always told me that honey and sugar work much better than sour milk and vinegar. (Um... I think that's the wording)

a wise friend of mine recently tweeted:

Anybody who claims "you catch more flies with honey than vinegar" has obviously never built a fruit fly trap.

[SleepyEyes21]

Do I need to get involved here? mm?

Sheriff

Nah, just bring the popcorn. I like the kind that is caramel covered.

49er

And I want cotton candy (pink please)

[palerider]

Do I need to get involved here? mm?

Sheriff

Nah, just bring the popcorn. I like the kind that is caramel covered.

49er

And I want cotton candy (pink please)

*hands you a biiiiiiig fluffy stick of pink cotton candy*

[SleepyEyes21]

Do I need to get involved here? mm?

Sheriff

Nah, just bring the popcorn. I like the kind that is caramel covered.

49er

And I want cotton candy (pink please)

*hands you a biiiiiiig fluffy stick of pink cotton candy*

YUMMY!! Trying to inhale through my hose now

[Phil587]

It would seem it might work out after all. To those of you that suggested I speak with Johnny were absolutely correct -- extremely nice guy. He is trying his very best to get my issue worked out, unlike his staff -- they still refused. All they had to do was offer me the exact same options Johnny offered and this would have been a non-issue. I won't know the outcome until tomorrow but it is progress. He stated it is normal procedure to do so but there is an apparent issue with some of his staff he will address. So, to those suggesting carrying the problem to Johnny -- THANK YOU!! The fact I will end up with two expensive machines when I only need one.

To those acting like petulant jerks with nothing more to offer than your vitriol in this thread, you seriously need help. I suggest you take a hard look within and try to figure out where you got off the "human" train and try your best to get fixed.

Phil

[Guest]

Glad you are seeing progress. Take things one day at a time. Best to ignore a lot of the comments here.

[Julie]

I'm glad you're getting things resolved with Johnmy, that's great, but as to the personal stuff... remember you came on the site with some pretty nasty things to say in a few notes, and being relatively new here, some people may have felt that you came across as arrogant, on top of not very polite... some of us having been here way too long and feeling attacked along with the Goodmans who have been friends apart from anything else.

We're all in similar boats here, just trying to manage this nonsense we're in, and help each other, and while some would do well to temper their own responses, they're not 'news' to us and we can roll with those punches... it was only that you came out of relative nowhere, all indignant and insulting our loyalties, so we may not have necessarily been as interested in what you actually said in the first notes, as the way they came across...

Good luck with it all.

[Told ya!]

It would seem it might work out after all. To those of you that suggested I speak with Johnny were absolutely correct -- extremely nice guy. He is trying his very best to get my issue worked out, unlike his staff -- they still refused. All they had to do was offer me the exact same options Johnny offered and this would have been a non-issue. I won't know the outcome until tomorrow but it is progress. He stated it is normal procedure to do so but there is an apparent issue with some of his staff he will address. So, to those suggesting carrying the problem to Johnny -- THANK YOU!! The fact I will end up with two expensive machines when I only need one.

To those acting like petulant jerks with nothing more to offer than your vitriol in this thread, you seriously need help. I suggest you take a hard look within and try to figure out where you got off the "human" train and try your best to get fixed.

Phil

Nearly everyone responding to this thread tried to tell you that.

So, it would appear that YOU are the "petulant jerk".

[Phil587]

Glad you are seeing progress. Take things one day at a time. Best to ignore a lot of the comments here.

Thanks, "Guest". It's a process I don't understand but must go through. Like I said -- at least there's progress.

As for the idiotic replies, It's kinda hard to ignore them when they are attacking me personally. I am the one potentially out one thousand dollars -- not them. If I could meet them face to face, I have NO doubt we could work out our differences. Since that's not possible, all I can do is treat them like the little cowards they are.

Again, thanks for your comments.

Phil

[Phil587]

I'm glad you're getting things resolved with Johnmy, that's great, but as to the personal stuff... remember you came on the site with some pretty nasty things to say in a few notes, and being relatively new here, some people may have felt that you came across as arrogant, on top of not very polite... some of us having been here way too long and feeling attacked along with the Goodmans who have been friends apart from anything else.

We're all in similar boats here, just trying to manage this nonsense we're in, and help each other, and while some would do well to temper their own responses, they're not 'news' to us and we can roll with those punches... it was only that you came out of relative nowhere, all indignant and insulting our loyalties, so we may not have necessarily been as interested in what you actually said in the first notes, as the way they came across...

Good luck with it all.

So, that's how you get your license to act like a jerk here, huh. I'll remember that after I have been around a while -- jerk license time!

As I said, *some* of you need help. Please get some before it's too late.