Gastric insufflation and ASV

[gary1001]

Hi,

I was researching swallowing air while on positive pressure as it is something I'm experiencing. Barry Krakow (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSZ36gfLhpY) goes as far as suggesting ASV for some patients as a last restore. Does anyone know why ASV technology would actually help with not swallowing air? Anyone taking this path?

Gary

[palerider]

Hi,

I was researching swallowing air while on positive pressure as it is something I'm experiencing. Barry Krakow (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSZ36gfLhpY) goes as far as suggesting ASV for some patients as a last restore. Does anyone know why ASV technology would actually help with not swallowing air? Anyone taking this path?

one of our members is a victim of barry ASV Krakow to the tune of thousands of dollars and still has that problem.

makes me dubious.

at first, it was all wine and roses: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=99026&p=920512#p919846

then some dubiousness: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=99212&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... 15#p922399

but then, time passed, the honeymoon ended, the roses wilted, and:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=101906&st=0&sk=t&sd=a#p953045

[Sir NoddinOff]

Hi,

I was researching swallowing air while on positive pressure as it is something I'm experiencing. Barry Krakow (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSZ36gfLhpY) goes as far as suggesting ASV for some patients as a last restore. Does anyone know why ASV technology would actually help with not swallowing air? Anyone taking this path?

one of our members is a victim of barry ASV Krakow to the tune of thousands of dollars and still has that problem.

makes me dubious.

at first, it was all wine and roses: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=99026&p=920512#p919846

then some dubiousness: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=99212&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... 15#p922399

but then, time passed, the honeymoon ended, the roses wilted, and:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=101906&st=0&sk=t&sd=a#p953045

I'd have to give a plus one to PR regarding this topic. It comes around every year or so, but never seems to gain any real traction. I guess it's possible a few folks are prone to this condition but I've never heard of a convincing case history presented on CPAPtalk.

[palerider]

I'd have to give a plus one to PR regarding this topic. It comes around every year or so, but never seems to gain any real traction. I guess it's possible a few folks are prone to this condition but I've never heard of a convincing case history presented on CPAPtalk.

yeah, I mean, ASV machines are practically full of magic unicorn farts for people with compsa and csa, csr, etc. but they're not a magic bullet for everything.

[M'ohms]

I'll say that ASV has made no difference to me with regards to the gas problem. Sometimes the way I sleep causes dry mouth/gas, and sometimes it doesn't. None of the 3 machines I've been on makes any difference in these matters.

[gary1001]

I'll say that ASV has made no difference to me with regards to the gas problem. Sometimes the way I sleep causes dry mouth/gas, and sometimes it doesn't. None of the 3 machines I've been on makes any difference in these matters.

Thanks - good to get first hand experience.

[chunkyfrog]

What is the distinction between gastric insufflation and aerophagia?
I would think the latter term would be sufficient, while the former might sound more serious while being a bit misleading.
But I'm just a silly little frog!

[ignorant1]

yeah, I mean, ASV machines are practically full of magic unicorn farts for people with compsa and csa, csr, etc. but they're not a magic bullet for everything.

... one of our members is a victim of barry ASV Krakow to the tune of thousands of dollars and still has that problem.

I'm NOT picking on you PaleRider, as your contributions to this community are invaluable and highly respected. ~ BUT...I will have to pipe in here and say that those magical unicorn farts ( ) have made a TREMENDOUS difference for me. I do also agree that an ASV is not a magic bullet for everything, but it can be a silver bullet (if not a Golden bullet) for specific patients & circumstances.

I've been on xPAP since the mid-90's and have run the gamut in the way of titrations, machines, and clinicians. I've witnessed tremendous progress in the field, and I have seen a number of well regarded and highly experienced sleep doctors; and I mean *real* dedicated sleep doctors, not medical practitioners that simply went through a fellowship training program. Based on my fairly extensive experience, I would take exception to stating that anyone is a "victim" of Dr. Krakow.

I went to Albuquerque to see Dr. Krakow and was *very* impressed with both his knowledge and passion for sleep medicine. He has certainly taken a lot of heat from the "old guard" in the industry, which is not unusual for people with unconventional approaches and/or on the cutting edge of an industry. His degree of intelligence and conceptual understanding is matched by few in the industry.

Back on point for the thread... I suffered from aerophagia since day one of xPAP therapy. I had resigned myself that this was just "the way that things will be", as the problem persisted throughout widely varied titration pressures over the years. (Which itself is a subject for another thread about competency & experience of technicians.) Upon initiation of ASV therapy a few years ago, I have since had no aerophagia. ZERO. I also (typically) have an AHI of ZERO too! So did the complete resolution of all SDB problems make everything better, as some people seem to expect? No. That is a pretty unrealistic expectation if there are other sleep issues such as PLMS/PLMD, pain issues, or other phenomena that can still disrupt sleep. But for a small segment of the population, an ASV unit can be phenomenally effective.

ASV has made a tremendous difference in my life, and it's pretty difficult to argue with success...

[palerider]

I do also agree that an ASV is not a magic bullet for everything, but it can be a silver bullet (if not a Golden bullet) for specific patients & circumstances.
....
ASV has made a tremendous difference in my life, and it's pretty difficult to argue with success...

it sounds like we're in complete agreement. anybody that's read much of my blathering here knows that I bought a vpap adapt (asv) for a friend after seeing him having CSR, and him being diagnosed shortly thereafter with congestive heart failure....

the adapt has been amazing at keeping him going. huffing on those unicorn farts all night (or in his case, since he's got a bit of a thing for bunnies, and I designed a custom bunny skin for the machine, bunny farts...

[archangle]

What is the distinction between gastric insufflation and aerophagia?
I would think the latter term would be sufficient, while the former might sound more serious while being a bit misleading.
But I'm just a silly little frog!

Same thing as used in relation to CPAP. It may be more correct to call it gastric unsufflation, but we all know what we mean by aerophagia in relation to CPAP.

Re: ASV vs. aerophagia.

Maybe if you set it right, you can use a lower average pressure with ASV and only get "kicked" with higher pressure when you need it. That might help some people with gas, but it's just speculation.

[mossytreesprite]

I've benefitted hugely from ASV unicorn farts, but I still have aerophagia, gastric insufflation, swallowing air, or the precursor to human farts (whatever you want to call it). Granted it has improved, but I think that's primarily due to making improvements in the positioning of my head (I started to use a D-core pillow) and getting used to air pressure therapy, in general. It seems like a $40 pillow may be a better place to start than spending thousands more on an ASV when you don't really need it.

[M'ohms]

[quote="palerider"][quote="ignorant1"] ...the adapt has been amazing at keeping him going. huffing on those unicorn farts all night (or in his case, since he's got a bit of a thing for bunnies, and I designed a custom bunny skin for the machine, bunny farts...

Oh man! I want his bunny farts machine. Mine's a buffalo stampede!