need sleep position help

[portiemom]

I have always been stomach sleeper, and due to spine issues I am very uncomfortable on my back or side. My spine health is declining and I was interested in any tips or tricks you folks may have on making adjustments to sleep on your side or back. I seem to just tough it out till I'm so exhausted and flip over on my stomach. Any tricks, tips, pads or bolsters used would be appreciated.

[Pugsy]

You may have read my ideas about using a buckwheat pillow to keep me off my back because supine sleeping just kills my back. A while back I used my small (under my head buckwheat pillow) as a back brace and it worked well and was comfy.
I have ordered a king sized buckwheat pillow (not here yet) to see how it works. In the past I found that leaning back against the buckwheat pillow was rather comforting to my back and pelvis. I will let you know how the king size pillow works.
The small one was just a bit low...could use a little higher profile for support.

I always thought it was rather counterproductive to use something that caused more discomfort and thus disturbed sleep when trying to stay off a person's back. The other stuff (rolled up bed linens and lightweight pillows) slipped out from under me too easily.

I don't know if having some gentle support against you back might help or not though. For me it was very comforting.

[chunkyfrog]

Does anybody use TENS at night to help with anything like this?

[avi123]

I have always been stomach sleeper, and due to spine issues I am very uncomfortable on my back or side. My spine health is declining and I was interested in any tips or tricks you folks may have on making adjustments to sleep on your side or back. I seem to just tough it out till I'm so exhausted and flip over on my stomach. Any tricks, tips, pads or bolsters used would be appreciated.

I don't understand this question. Why can't you continue to sleep on your stomach? With most posters it's the other way around that they sleep on their backs and want to avoid it.

[portiemom]

Thanks Pugsey, I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the kingsize buckwheat pillow, they are quite expensive and I'd love to get your views before I buy one.
Avi123, sleeping on your stomach is never good, even if you have a super firm mattress and a healthy back. The natural curvature of the spine and neck are in a stress mode when on your stomach, add to that severe spinal stenosis, DDD, and Spondy and the pain is substantially increased. Optimally, side sleeping would be best, and I was wondering if anyone used a knee wedge to help with pressure on the lower spine. Thanks, for any advice out there.

[Pugsy]

I got the buckwheat pillow last night. King size is huge and this one is a little too firm (and tall) for my neck and may I don't think it has the capability to remove some of the hulls. Don't know what I was thinking......
Anyway, I may use it as a back brace tonight, if not for sure tomorrow night (husband will be gone).
It's a great pillow and for someone larger than I am (not quite 5' and very small boned) it would be a great head pillow.
On my side...it would be perfect...I may also try the small Regenisis buckwheat pillow as a back brace again. That way I won't run my husband out of the bed.

BTW...huge PITA putting a pillow case onto a king size buckwheat pillow. That sucker is heavy.
I got it from the beans72.com. Their buckwheat pillows are priced fairly reasonably. I maybe should have got their small body pillow for a brace. I really was torn between which to get.http://www.beans72.com/Pillows.htm

[The Choker]

sleeping on your stomach is never good, even if you have a super firm mattress and a healthy back. The natural curvature of the spine and neck are in a stress mode when on your stomach, add to that severe spinal stenosis, DDD, and Spondy and the pain is substantially increased.

You are entitled to believe that but I don't.

I learned a couple years ago from cpaptalk (Dr. Eric Falcon) how to sleep properly on my stomach and it is very restful for my back. It seems to stretch my spine and relieve all pain.

Dr. Falcon (I believe this is a pseudonym) explains the correct position for backsleeping while wearing a CPAP mask here:

http://www.uarsrelief.com/sleeppositions.html



I am a much bigger guy than Falcon and the technique still works for me.

[portiemom]

Hi Choker, I agree, I have been sleeping in that position since my first surgery in 2000, then in 2010, I slept the same way, but with some accomodations for my spine, some height adjustments to the upward arm and bent leg to open up my chest as the thorasic spine involvement caused the lungs a problem. Now it is harder to get my lungs to expand enough which causes arousals throughout the night as well as pain. I had viewed the post you recommend back awhile to see if it was the same as my doc had recommended in 2000 oand yes it was. Thanks for posting it though, I do appreciate it.

[portiemom]

Oh, I know what you mean Pugsey, we have a queen bed and with all my accomodations for health issues I leave little room for my hubby as well. We downsized from a King several years ago when we booted the dogs out of the bed, what was I thinking? My mini schnauzer was the best back or leg bolster ever, when he skooshed up behind me I couldn't bugde him, maybe I need to upsize my bed again. Naw too darn expensive for the mattress I need, I'd like to suspend my self like in those Matt Damon movies, ha... I was looking at the same web-site for the buckwheat pillows, even thought I might ask them to custom make a skinny long one to use as a body pillow brace. You could get some soft terrycloth and make a long tube and put the hulls in it and sew up the end. Then it would be lighter to lift, and thinner to sleep with your hubby in the bed. I know you can labrat it....

[Pugsy]

Report on side sleeping experiment.
I figured out how to remove the hulls on the king size buckwheat pillow. There is a well hidden zipper and of course I had that end of the pillow in the pillow case first...anyway...removed some hulls and it suits my head a lot better. Last 2 nights used it under my head. May need a little more hull removal.

So last night I decided to use my "old" head pillow the small Regenisis buckwheat pillow as a back brace.
It can be used with husband in bed because it is rather small. Smaller than a regular pillow for sure...about the size of one of the Sobakawa Cloud pillows (I have one of those...which would make a nice back brace but too light because it will slide out from under me). I stayed on my side all night and it was extremely comfortable leaning against the gentle support of the buckwheat pillow. Woke up briefly once to realize I was still on my side. Slept well and for extra testing I took no pain meds or anything last night. It was a good night. Not pain free but then I never am...certainly no increase in pain and since I slept well...a big plus.

My personal thoughts are that the small buckwheat pillow will do a good job as a back brace for at least small to medium sized folks. Larger folks may need a larger support.

A long skinny buckwheat back brace pillow would probably work great and not take up much room in the bed but the small Regenisis pillow doesn't either. It ain't cheap though. None of them are unfortunately. Back when I was first thinking back brace stuff right after I started cpap therapy I did try using corn kernels.. don't try it. They are heavy and not very comfortable.

I might give the beans72 small body pillow a try...I need to think on it just a bit.
For sure the Regenisis pillow works great and now that I have something for my head...I think I will use the Regenisis as a back brace. I am in the situation where the Regenisis does work well but I wonder if the other would be "better"...the grass is greener thing.

For cheap testing...I think the Sobakawa buckwheat pillow is also small sized and it might just work also. If it isn't any larger than their CLoud pillow I don't think it would run hubby out of bed.
For sure the small body pillow would likely work.
All we need is something large enough for a little support (doesn't have to be huge) and not so large as to hog the entire bed.

So for comfort staying on my side without using tennis balls or something else that causes pain...using the buckwheat pillow was extremely comfortable way to stay on my side. Even while awake the gentle support against my back actually felt very good. People with bad backs will understand.

Side benefit...my leak rate was near nothing last night. One little short blip to 8 L/min or so was all it ever went to.
I have long suspected that when I end up on my back that my leaks increase...probably due to mouth opening but since it never was a huge prolonged leak showing up on the reports and didn't wake me up...I sort of chose to ignore it.
Even if it wasn't mouth open thing..it stands to reason that the more we move around in bed tossing and turning the greater the chance for the mask to slip a little.

I need to check the size on the Regenisis pillow and see how it compares to inexpensive Sobakawa pillows that I have seen on Ebay for around $20. I don't see measurements listed for Regenisis. It is about the size (maybe tiny bit larger) than the Sobakawa Cloud.

[chunkyfrog]

I have been toying with using the filling out of one of these:
http://neonoodle.com/

[portiemom]

Pugsey, I'm so glad you found the zipper on the pillow, and that you were able to make it work for you. I was looking for the buckwheat sowakoba pillow but they are not selling it anymore at Bed, Bath, & Beyond, only the cloud which makes me feel hot. I will have to look further into the beans72 pillows. Once I got a harebrain idea to make a pillow from cherry pits as I had picked up a small pillow full of them that you put in the microwave and place on sore muscles. Talk about hard and uncomfortable, I was the ultimate Princess and the Pea, or should I say Pitts. Sore from end to end. Ha
Chunkyfrog I have one of those noodles in the pool, but they roll away on the bed. Hubby said he thought I was dreaming of the Titanic and was trying to rescue him as it kept rolling towards him.

[Janknitz]

I sleep on my side, and there are a few things to do to make sure I'm not hurting my back

1. I use a pillow between my knees so that my hips are aligned.
2. When my back is in pain, I roll a pillow behind me and lean against that. A bed partner can really push the pillow and tuck it for you for best support.
3. I "hug" a big fluffy pillow that supports the arm on top.
4. The pillow under my head has to be just right to support my neck in good alignment. I use one of those memory foam "orthopedic" pillows on top of an old, flat pillow to get exactly the right height. My mask goes in the sort of "ditch" between the two neck rolls on the orthopedic pillow so there's no pressure on my ear or the mask.

I can sleep comfortably on my right side for about 5 or 6 hours, but now that I'm older my right hip won't tolerate it any longer. I log roll to the other side for my last few hours of sleep, but I don't have the pillow tucked behind my back on that side.

One of those long J shaped pillows I've seen on infomercials might work really well for giving you back and head support.

For many years I slept in a position that was half on my stomach and half on my side, like the falcon position, but that started to cause me a lot of back pain.

[Pugsy]

If someone removed the little beads from a Sobakawa Cloud pillow and replaced them with buckwheat hulls it likely would be large enough to support staying on their side and not so big as to get in the way. I don't think the Cloud pillow right now as it is offers enough support but since I have one I will try it tonight as a back brace.

That Japanese sized travel pillow at the 72beans company might just be large enough to do the trick also.
I am still mulling over the small body pillow.

[Pugsy]

Report on last night's experiments.
Brief attempt to use the Sobawa Cloud pillow as a back brace. Didn't realize what was meant about it was "too hot" until I had it up against my back...took maybe 3 minutes before it got tossed aside. Way to warm for me and my still occasional hot flashes despite using air conditioning.
Regenisis Pillow was nice an cool...well it didn't stay in place so great last night. I woke up a few times on my back (with back hurting) and my leak line has a few less than stellar times showing...probably was on my back again and might have been mouth breathing a bit. My witching hour for leaks is always right at about 90 to 120 minutes into sleep...I know that is REM stage sleep...I haven't figured out why I leak more in REM sleep. Oh well, back to the Regenisis pillow tonight and I will see if it stays in place. Looks like it is going to be sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't. Do the sometimes it doesn't times make me want to bite the bullet and get the small body pillow? Don't know...haven't decided yet. I am still going to bed without meds...to make it the worst possible scenario.

Overall time in large leak greater than 24 L/min...probably around 15 minutes or so. Rather spikey so kind of hard to tell for sure. One time was around 5 minutes another maybe 4 and few others with random spikes not lasting long enough to really add up to much. One leak was near 40 (that was the 5 minute one). I have a sneaky suspicion my big mouth was open. Can't prove it but I wouldn't be surprised. I still won't do anything about it though. It didn't wake me up and it didn't last long enough to really impact things all that much if it was mouth breathing. I think I have found some proof to what I long suspected...any real leaks are when I am on my back...are they just pillow movement from the turning over...that is something I don't have an answer for but hubby reports that sometimes when I am on my back I snore...and my mouth is open...so I likely have a good indication what the leak is from.

For sure the buckwheat pillow is comfortable though to lean against and use as a back brace. The support feels good. Plain and simple.