Post Traumatic Stress from Apnea

[The Choker]

My dreams with untreated apnea were both disturbing and traumatic,
The scenarios would make me anxious for days afterward, even though they were "only dreams".
I was irritable, and easily moved to tears.
Perhaps there is some kind of gray area?
Not that it matters any more; I'm much better now.

Very much the same for me. Disturbing dreams and the anxiety continued into the next day. Constantly running at high anxiety level. A good bit paranoid.

I was diagnosed by a therapist and a psychiatrist with anxiety and depression.

After CPAP the dreams were gone and the anxiety went away. Now fully involved in society and will tread where angels fear. haha

[lcosborn]

So mstevens, I have a few more questions.

How do you think sleep apnea (or sleep deprivation) affects compulsive behavior, like shopping or gambling or substance abuse?

How does sleep apnea (or sleep deprivation) affect judgment?

What is the difference between epinephrine and norepinephrine?

Why did they change the name from adrenaline to epinephrine?

[The Choker]

How do you think sleep apnea (or sleep deprivation) affects compulsive behavior, like shopping or gambling or substance abuse?

Now that I am better I can see a bit of OCD behavior in my former life. Always afraid I would wake up some morning and be out of something. Bought many ties, shirts, pants, undershirts and pants, socks; extra deodorants, shampoos, razors. Carried extra items on trips.

Now I look in the closet and the bathroom cabinets and wonder what the hell was I doing. As clothes wear out I am now reducing the amount of stuff in my wardrobe. Glad to be using CPAP!

[SleepingUgly]

There is a big difference between lay people's use of the term "traumatic" and symptoms that meet diagnostic criteria for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.

I agree that perception of the event is critical. For example, when my son was young, he choked on a hot dog and a had to give him a Heimlich. More "traumatic" (lay use) to me than to him because, while uncomfortable for a few seconds, he had no recognition that he could die during the episode, whereas I did.

I do think daytime anxiety can be rooted in the sleep of someone who has OSA, but not PTSD, for reasons already mentioned by mstevens (i.e., awareness, perception, interpretation).

[lcosborn]

I think I am trying to construct a narrative about my life post-apnea that makes sense. I did engage in a lot of compulsive behaviors like those mentioned by The Choker. I got my Bipap and the right pressure settings about a year ago, and since then those strange compulsive behaviors have just slowly melted away. But my body still feels beat up. I feel like I've been traumatized, but I can't point to any specific experience that would explain how I feel--no childhood abuse of any kind, no accidents, no violence. Just an overwhelming feeling of having been to hell and back. It's almost been a year. When will I be a fully functioning adult?

[cindjo717]

I have been getting anxiety attacks since my early twenties. I think that I have had sleep apnea for at least that long, probably longer. I have been wondering if there is a connection between the sleep apnea and my anxiety attacks.

[MaxDarkside]

It's very interesting to learn how this affects people in different ways. Thank you! For me, my "clock" wound down and down and down as caffeine and nicotine went up and up to compensate until I crashed. One seems to need to hit a low point to get the determination to climb out of the pit. I did have some amplified anxiety during stressful times, along with high BPs to go with them, including going 197/125 even when on max human dose of Lisinopril (and some other BP drugs).

[lcosborn]

How long did it take from the time of getting the proper treatment to feel healed?

[SleepingUgly]

Now that I am better I can see a bit of OCD behavior in my former life. Always afraid I would wake up some morning and be out of something. Bought many ties, shirts, pants, undershirts and pants, socks; extra deodorants, shampoos, razors. Carried extra items on trips.

Was that born out of a fear of forgetting something?

[The Choker]

Now that I am better I can see a bit of OCD behavior in my former life. Always afraid I would wake up some morning and be out of something. Bought many ties, shirts, pants, undershirts and pants, socks; extra deodorants, shampoos, razors. Carried extra items on trips.

Was that born out of a fear of forgetting something?

I forget whether it was born out of a fear of forgetting.

[MaxDarkside]

How long did it take from the time of getting the proper treatment to feel healed?

For me, this is a multi-dimensional healing. Some aspects were immediate, like a bit more spring in my step, thinking faster, easier breathing (my lung capacity seems 3x more now). Some aspects were unaffected for me (body aches, might be from a form of Charcot-Marie-Tooth) and well, what I'm still struggling with is grogginess. I just wish, after 2 months that it had gone away. I am so groggy right now... I give it more time, it's only been 8 weeks compared to probably at least a decade...

[M.D.Hosehead]

There is a big difference between lay people's use of the term "traumatic" and symptoms that meet diagnostic criteria for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.

True, and there's also a big difference between the general use of the terms "obsession" and " compulsive," for example,
"She's obsessed with money"
"He's a compulsive gambler"

and the technical definitions used professionally. Unfortunately, we seem to be stuck with these terms and their ambiguity leads to problems in communicating clearly.

Icosborn said

I feel like I've been traumatized, but I can't point to any specific experience that would explain how I feel

I think I am trying to construct a narrative about my life post-apnea that makes sense

These are profound and important life puzzles and I wish you success. I think that something more than sleep apnea is involved.

[SleepingUgly]

There are symptoms that are clearly directly caused by OSA (e.g., sleepiness) and those that can be caused by OSA (e.g., memory problems, irritability, depressive symptoms, anxiety, etc.). Then there are the consequences to our lives of long-term untreated OSA (e.g., damage to careers from poor job performance, social impairment, etc.).

Then comes treatment. There are a few ways this can go. It can go spectacularly well and all the above can be reversed (hip hip hooray!). It can reverse the direct and indirect symptoms, but there can still be the carnage of careers, family, etc. and that can take longer to repair. There can be inconsistent improvement (e.g., I'm no longer sleepy, but, while improved, my memory still isn't what it used to be). In that case, one can make sure the therapy is truly optimized. If it is, one moves on to asking if there is anything else causing the persisting problems? If no obvious other cause is found, certain lingering symptoms can always be attributed to OSA (e.g., some memory impairments in some people do not completely reverse in OSA, and this is known).

That said, IMHO, some things cannot directly or indirectly (except very tangentially, which doesn't count) be attributed to OSA. Based on nothing other than my very unscientific gut-feeling, I think depressive and anxious symptoms can be related to OSA (which doesn't mean they always ARE), but I don't think manic symptoms can be.

How do you think sleep apnea (or sleep deprivation) affects compulsive behavior, like shopping or gambling or substance abuse?

I don't think that "compulsive behaviors" (not my term) such as "shopping" and "gambling" can be attributed to OSA directly or indirectly. I just finished reading a book by Kay Redfield Jamison, who has bipolar disorder, and in this book she repeatedly mentioned the importance of getting sleep so she won't become manic. So in someone who has a proclivity toward bipolar disorder, certainly any sleep deprivation can be a risk factor for relapse. But in my ignorant opinion, mania is not a likely manifestation, directly or indirectly, of OSA. As far as "substance abuse", I don't think it's specific to people with OSA. If someone wanted to make the case that abuse of stimulants may be related to OSA, I'd argue that it should be just as prevalent in any other group of sleep disordered/tired people, and I'm not sure how prevalent it is anyway.

How does sleep apnea (or sleep deprivation) affect judgment?

Clearly it can affect memory and cognition. And it may cause someone to buy a few extra cans of deodorant because they can't remember they already have 4 at home (you know who you are!). But buying a BMW while unemployed, having an affair with your boss, and telling your mother in law that you can't stand her meat loaf, nah.

[kteague]

Since this thread has come back to life, just thought I'd weigh in. All through this journey I've been fascinated by what my brain has gone through over these years. I'm not speaking about diagnoses or any medical classifications, just know that at one time there was some good discussion on here about retraining the brain, and I do feel like my brain had learned dysfunction and seemed to want to keep old patterns. Relearning how to sleep has been a process. Even though it was not technically PTSD, there certainly was a residual effect from what my brain had been through in the sense of reliving the assualt through engrained brain patterns long after it had ended. I kept telling myself if I provided myself with the best environment for and opportunity to sleep, it would happen. And it has. There are times I feel I have very good sleep, and most nights I get a few hours that fit that description. By "normal" standards my nights even now leave much to be desired, but are dramatically different from when I slept in snatches of minutes around the clock.

But as usual, I digress. The main thing that made me weigh in here was discussion of compulsive behaviors. Since there seem to be quite of few of us with RLS and/or PLMD on here, just a warning that dopamine agonists are known to be a culprit in some cases. I developed addictive and compulsive behaviors when on Mirapex. They went away when I went off it. Felt lucky to not experience it on Requip. Even luckier now that I'm off those meds and using a TENS Unit instead.

In general, I've found it's one of the most frustrating things in the world to be just outside the circle of current understanding on any medical issue. As Snoredog used to have in his signature line, "Someday science will catch up with what I'm saying." I'll be glad when science does a bit more catching up on understanding the long term effects of sleep disorders on the brain.

[BlackSpinner]

There have been hundreds of studies on the effects of sleep deprivation since the early 1900's. Most of them done by the military. The effects can be strange. For example sleep deprived people will bomb schools and hospitals without question while they would question/ evaluate the orders if not deprived.
For years I also had sort of all the low grade markers of PSTD while never having found the real reason behind it. Many of those have disappeared after being on cpap for about 6 months. But I had to work with a therapist to dig out all the really bad habits many years of sleep deprivation caused.