PR S1 Patterns of Use data numbers

[robysue]

Wish I could post the graphic, but it's on the other computer and I don't want to deal with it right now---not when company is coming in a few minutes and this will be my last post for the night.

But until last night's mysterious twenty minute gap (see viewtopic.php?f=1&t=58596&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=30 ---page 3, about 1/2 way down for details if you really want to know), the two numbers listed on page 2 of the Encore Viewer report (Patterns of Use) for each day were exactly the same for every day. But for 12/31, the first number is 5:17 and the second is 5:42. There are 5 hours and 17 minutes worth of detailed data shown for 12/31 on the appropriate page of the Encore Viewer report and the detailed report shows a gap in the leak graph of approximately 20 minutes. [42-17 = 25, so my guess is that the gap is really exactly 25 minutes long to be precise.]

Now---is the 5:17 the time the PRS1 believes it was delivering therapy? In other words that it thinks it was on and that I had the mask on my nose?

And is the 5:42 the time the PRS1 was actually blowing?

The reason I ask is that I took my very first Ambien last night. I have NEVER taken my mask off before in my sleep (to the best of my knowledge). I have NEVER consciously woken up without the mask on my nose---including last night.

So maybe I not only took the mask off in my sleep, but also put it back on in my sleep?

[jules]

is there such a thing as ambien amnesia?

yes - people eat, cook, shop online, call up people, chat online, drive and more while under the influence thinking they were asleep - so taking of your mask and putting it back on can probably happen

[robysue]

So I guess should start a thread entited, "I don't remember putting my mask on in my sleep????" to counter all those "I don't remember taking my mask off in my sleep" threads.

On the serious side, however, it does add to my caution of using the Ambien more than one day in a row ....

[jules]

the problem with using it several days in a row is the propensity for addiction - been there myself actually

the half life is rather short so there is very little cumulative effect - it is 99 + % eliminated 24 hours late (unlike some other meds like valium and klonopin where the half life is fairly long and so a nonzero steady state blood level can occur with daily dosing

[robysue]

the problem with using it several days in a row is the propensity for addiction - been there myself actually

the half life is rather short so there is very little cumulative effect - it is 99 + % eliminated 24 hours late (unlike some other meds like valium and klonopin where the half life is fairly long and so a nonzero steady state blood level can occur with daily dosing

Because of the propensity for addiction the plan all along has been to use the Ambien only to prevent TWO DISASTROUS NIGHTS OF INSOMNIA in a row from happening. The standard for "not a disastrous night" is not set particularly high. It includes:

• not screaming at my husband in the night because of the BiPAP or because of the cat
  not screaming at the cat in the night because of the BiPAP or because he's a cat
  not screaming at the BiPAP in the night
  feeling like I got at least a couple of hours of decent quality sleep somewhere in the night
  being able to drag myself out of bed at the mandatory 7:30 WAKE UP TIME without snarling too loudly at my husband and/or the cat
  being able to drag myself through the day without screaming at anybody for no real reason (except the cat---if he gets underfoot AGAIN)

The basic plan is: If I don't have a disastrous night on Night X, then I don't take an Ambien on Night X+1. If I do have a disastrous night on NIght X, then I do take an Ambien on Night X+1. Now, if last night is what happens when I'm on Ambien (see viewtopic.php?f=1&t=58596&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=30 ), then a night on Ambien should have no real problem satisifing my not very high standard of "not a disastrous night." And that should prevent me from needing to take Ambien on two nights in a row.

Last night (my first night with an Ambien) easily exceeded these modest standards. And so I've no intention of taking any Ambien tonight. Now that does indeed mean I'm flirting with disaster (again). But c'est la vie. I'll handle ONE DISASTROUS NIGHT at a time (for now) in the hopes that I'll eventually learn how to tolerate that dang irritating tickle in the back of my throat from the BiPAP that seems to trigger many of my meltdowns.

I really want to avoid rebound insomnia. And the Ambien-induced amensia/sleep mask taking off and putting on (if that's what it was) is freaking out my rather over stimulated mind and under stimulated physical body at this point. REMINDER TO SELF: GOTTA GO DO SOME YOGA. And it seems that simply restricting using Ambien to "not several nights in a row" where "several" is a very, very small number should be a workable short term strategy. Sort of like preventing rebound congestion by being sure to NOT use decongestant nose every day.

[jbn3boys]

I've been thinking of this off and on since I read it yesterday. My idea was the same as jules. I would guess that you shut the machine off for a period of time, but don't remember doing so. The only times I have seen a break in the green leak line is when I have turned the machine off. Would your husband be any help in knowing if you had gotten out of bed for a time? Or does he not notice those things, since it can be a common occurrence for you? Maybe the next time you do need to take Ambien, could you ask him to "keep track" of if you get up during the night?

Personally, I take trazadone nightly for sleep. I have been on it for a couple of years (long before cpap), and it has worked very well for me. On nights that seem particularly "bad" (i.e. I know I'm going to have a hard time getting to sleep), I have the ability to up my dose a little, and it usually does the trick. Trazadone is actually an anti-depressant, although it is rarely used for that. It is not similar to Ambien or other sleep medicines, and is not thought to be addictive.

[robysue]

I've been thinking of this off and on since I read it yesterday. My idea was the same as jules. I would guess that you shut the machine off for a period of time, but don't remember doing so. The only times I have seen a break in the green leak line is when I have turned the machine off.

But then the blower hours and the therapy hours would be in agreement, wouldn't they?

And the blower hours for the day are 25 minutes GREATER than therapy hours---exactly the length of the mysterious gap in the green line.

And I most definitely do NOT remember waking up with the machine OFF or the mask OFF. So if I turned the machine OFF in my sleep, then I must have also turned it back ON In my sleep as well as put the mask ON in my sleep. How many people do that?

Would your husband be any help in knowing if you had gotten out of bed for a time? Or does he not notice those things, since it can be a common occurrence for you? Maybe the next time you do need to take Ambien, could you ask him to "keep track" of if you get up during the night?

Hubby slept like a log that night. He knows that Ambien can trigger this kind of reaction. But he's a pretty deep sleeper most of the time. Unless he wakes up needing to go to the bathroom.

[jbn3boys]

But then the blower hours and the therapy hours would be in agreement, wouldn't they?

And the blower hours for the day are 25 minutes GREATER than therapy hours---exactly the length of the mysterious gap in the green line.

You are right. I just went back and looked at my page 2 info (now pages 2--4), and all of my times are the same. If yours are different by 25 minutes, and that corresponds with the gap in the green line on the daily detail, then I guess I'm not so sure. I would think if you took the mask off, it would record as a large leak. But maybe 100% leak does not equal a large leak, but rather a break in the mask fit. If that's the case, then maybe, in your sleep (due to Ambien), you got up and went to do something, then came back to bed and put your mask back on 25 minutes later. I suppose that could explain it, if taking the mask off and leaving the machine on would result in that break in the green line (normal mask fit) and the corresponding decrease in hours on page 2.

Hubby slept like a log that night. He knows that Ambien can trigger this kind of reaction. But he's a pretty deep sleeper most of the time. Unless he wakes up needing to go to the bathroom.

I don't know if he would be agreeable, but maybe on a night that he doesn't have to work the next day, would he consider going to bed early to get some sleep, then be "awake" when you are sleeping, to help you know if this is what is happening? (okay, that sentence might be one of my longest run-on sentences ever!)

Or would it be possible to have a video camera set up to see if you get up during the night? If it were me, I'd be really curious to see if that were the case.

Also, would it be possible to decrease the dose of Ambien? (I'm guessing you are started on the lowest dose, but if not it might help.) Or, conversely, maybe you need a higher dose, to help you to sleep without getting up. I certainly don't know much of anything about sleep meds, but I suppose it could work that way, too.

Best of luck!
jbn