do any cpaps have FAA approval labels ON THEM?

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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Silver Pelt
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Re: do any cpaps have FAA approval labels ON THEM?

Post by Silver Pelt » Sat Jun 20, 2009 4:11 am

I said something about Lufthansa, not the original poster, because of my experiences with them. Other folks have different experience, and claim Lufthansa is one of the better airlines when it comes to xPAP machine policy. I mentioned it because it was relevant to the topic, but not central.

I've learned from Bill Bolton that nearly all modern xPAP machines will operate at normal cabin altitudes, so that's encouraging. The line of authority structure I tried to explain remains in place. I've also learned that there are recent rules by DOT that essentially require airlines to accommodate CPAP machines that are certified to meet FAA radio interference standards, and display a manufacturer’s label that indicates the device meets those FAA requirements. Currently there are few or no machines that do so, and manufacturers may not feel much market pressure to perform the expensive testing and application process. (I have a very low opinion of FAA policy towards radio interference from passenger electronics, but that is another topic.) Even when permitted, CPAP machines will be treated like any other portable electronic device, and may be operated only when the aircraft is above 10,000 feet and the captain and flightcrew have authorized their use.

The InFO bulletin states that
For other devices that have not been tested by the manufacturer to meet the emission levels in the RTCA standard, air carriers can continue to use the current guidance in AC 91.21-1. In many situations, this requires case-by-case testing of a particular device and a determination by the air carrier that the device can be operated safely on their aircraft.


In other words, the airline, flight attendants, and captain can grant, or deny, permission to use an unlabeled CPAP machine while in flight. Practically speaking, that will be the situation for years to come, label or no label.

So the short answer to Organic Girl's original question is that no one has identified a CPAP machine that carries the new label.

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Re: do any cpaps have FAA approval labels ON THEM?

Post by harry33 » Sat Jun 20, 2009 4:49 am

the cheap seats often dont have a power outlet, BTW
australian,anxiety and insomnia, a CPAP user since 1995, self diagnosed after years of fatigue, 2 cheap CPAPs and respironics comfortgell nose only mask. not one of my many doctors ever asked me if I snored

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ozij
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Re: do any cpaps have FAA approval labels ON THEM?

Post by ozij » Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:09 am

Example:

http://www.continental.com/web/en-US/co ... ators.aspx
IMPORTANT: To be used on our flights, the device must display the manufacturer’s label indicating it meets FAA requirements. As of May 13, 2009, the U.S. Department of Transportation / FAA have not provided labeling guidance to manufacturers of these devices; therefore, Continental does not accept such devices for use in the cabin at this time if they are not adequately labeled.

The next site has probably become academic, in this cotext, but still nice to know:

http://www.seatguru.com

O.

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Bearded_One
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Re: do any cpaps have FAA approval labels ON THEM?

Post by Bearded_One » Sat Jun 20, 2009 1:10 pm

There is a very significant number of people in North America that live above 5,000 feet. Denver is at about 5,280 feet and Mexico City is at about 7,400 feet.

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rested gal
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Re: do any cpaps have FAA approval labels ON THEM?

Post by rested gal » Sat Jun 20, 2009 4:43 pm

Regarding this --
organicgirl wrote:What would you recommend?
---
alarm them that I will not be able to breathe and be a medical risk to them if I fly without it.
I wouldn't! I'd heed what Bill and Silver Pelt said:
billbolton wrote:If you even hint to any airline that you might be a medical flight risk, there is a chance they may not allow you to fly at all... so don't do that!
Silver Pelt wrote:airlines can and do refuse to take some sick people and some disabled people.
organicgirl, in the other topic you started about flying and CPAP --
viewtopic.php?p=377552#p377552

I suggested something you might want to consider:
I wrote:organicgirl, have you thought about a simpler solution, like trying a dental appliance that holds the lower jaw forward? Perhaps that would keep your airway open "just enough" (especially since you'll be sitting up on the flight) to let you breathe in your sleep just well enough to get by.
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Re: do any cpaps have FAA approval labels ON THEM?

Post by cpapFlyer » Thu Dec 03, 2009 2:23 pm

I fly almost every week, so this is a subject that is dear to my heart.
I purchased a battery and power inverter for my ResMed S8 autovantage about two years ago and use it regularly on my flights. I have used it on Continental, Northwestern (Delta), Delta, Continental Express, Copa, Lufthansa, United, American, and United Express. I have only been refused permission on two flights during that time. The decision has been entirely up to the flight crew.

Prior to the FAA update issued in May (InFO 09006), the airlines had severe restrictions on the use of Portable Oxygen Concentrators (POC) and on the use of oxygen. My understanding is that this was because of the fear that the oxygen presented an elevated risk of fire.. Regulation AC 91.21-1 has extensive extra testing for these devices. The manufactures must provide information for the additional certification. If they pass these additional tests, they get a certification sticker. However before InFO09006, most airlines required a prescription for a doctor, device certification, pre-notification and often had special seating. On many airlines the flight attendants told me that allowing the use of oxygen without written authorization was grounds for immediate dismissal.
The flight manuals that I have seen have 5 or pages on POCs and oxygen, but in most cases they said nothing about CPAP machines. AC 91.21-1 indicates that other respiratory devices (non oxygen) are treated as an Personal Electronic Device (PED). This means that they must be certified for RFI emissions on each plane just like a laptop or an IPOD, but do not require special certification. Hence, they do not have a sticker.

The way I read InFO09006, is that it removes some of the restrictions on the use respiratory devices to comply with the Americans with Disabilities Act(ADA). The airlines must now allow any device that has met the certification requirements without restrictions. However, because the airlines (not the manufacturers) are responsible for certification of PEDs, it is not easy to find out what is certified on which aircraft. While all airlines have a list, Quantas is the only one that I have seen publish it. My understanding is that most (if not all) of the airlines subscribe to outside testing services to do the actual testing, so I surmise that the list is probably the same for all airlines.

One of the two times that I could not use my machine was on an old Bombardier TurboProp on Northwest built in the 1980’s. The flight crew called the ops center and they were told that my machine had never been tested on the model plane. However, on all other occasions where it got that far, my device was certified.

I am not a lawyer, but I believe that with the new change, the airline must let you use the device if it has been certified on that model aircraft on be in violation of InFO09006 and the ADA.. That does not mean that a crew must let you use it, but it gives you the right to sue if it does not and you can prove it was certified.

So, what can you do:
1) I agree with Silver Pelt that the flight attendant always has the final say. You can be booted off the airplane and arrested if you ignore their instructions, even they are wrong.
2) Make sure that you clarify that your device does not use oxygen, so it is not covered under the POC regulations. Most flight attendants automatically assume that a CPAP is a POC because they have been trained never to allow the use of a POC. If they heard about a CPAP, it was with a long list of PEDs including computers, music players, etc. that cannot be used below 10,000 feet.
2). Check with the airline – especially if it is a long trip were not using your device will be a big problem. Continental for instance requests written notice two days ahead of time (although the flight crew are usually fine with it anyway). With the InFO09006, I think that airlines will need to be more accommodating.
3) Tell the flight attendant before you take off that you intend to you the device above 10,000 feet for sleeping, that is not a POC, and that it is regulated as an electronic device. I have tried just using it but I have had mixed results. I have had flight attendant wake me up and start yelling at me because they thought I was using oxygen. On the other hand, that is how I successfully used it on Lufthansa – but I was in business class so they were forgiving.
4) Don’t tell the airline that it is a life and death situation. This can create other problems. I had one flight on a Spanish speaking airline where I was trying to explain sleep apnea. I told them that I used the machine because otherwise I stop breathing when I sleep. They held up the plane while someone got a 2 page release form which released them from all responsibility (I think). It was all in Spanish, but I had to sign it if I wanted to fly home.
What if you are refused:
1) Always stay calm and courteous. The flight attendant is just trying to do their job. In my experience, the longer the flight the more likely that the crew know the regulations because they have had to deal with it before. However on many shorter flights they have never heard of a CPAP machine and need education.
2) Give them some time to do research. On larger flights there is usually someone who understands the problem. On small flights, they often need to look it up, or call the pilot.. However, the flight attendant has many responsibilities especially during takeoff. If you push for a quick answer it will be no.
3) Don’t take the first no as an answer. I usually ask why they are saying no. In most cases it is because they are thinking it is oxygen. With some clarification it can be cleared up.
4) Ask to see the flight manual. They are not required to show it to you, but I have often been able to read it and then show them that it only refers to POC machines. I have had to ask only once since InFO09006 was implemented and the manual I saw still had all of the outdated POC pages. There is usually a pouch at the back with the updates, so I suspect that InFO090006 was in there.
5) Ask them to check with the pilot if they have not already done so. This can backfire, so it is a last resort. The pilot has final say, but in several cases I have had the pilot radio operations to determine the certification of the device.
6) If they still say no, let them know that you will comply with their instructions, but that they are in violation of the ADA and you will follow up with the airline. This will not help you on this flight, but may help the next person if they go back and get the correct answer.
7) Follow up with the airline. Especially now that InFO09006 is in place, the airline has a responsibility to make sure that they do not deny your ADA rights if the device is actually certified as safe to use.
I have been thinking of putting together in a packet of information explaining the device and the FAA regulations around it. Has anyone tried this?

John P

Re: do any cpaps have FAA approval labels ON THEM?

Post by John P » Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:58 am

The Respironics System One is FAA approved. There may be others. The CPAP manufacturers are starting to "wake up" on this.

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Re: do any cpaps have FAA approval labels ON THEM?

Post by chunkyfrog » Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:27 am

We are hoping to vacation in Alaska some time in the near future.
We will DRIVE, thank you.

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Re: do any cpaps have FAA approval labels ON THEM?

Post by LarryM » Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:34 pm

I was just told by Aer Lingus that I can't take my CPAP on their plane w/o an FAA approved sticker and a doctor's note (!) even though I HAVE NO INTENTION OF USING IT ON THE PLANE. I only want to use it once I reach my destination.

They're idiots.

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Re: do any cpaps have FAA approval labels ON THEM?

Post by JO'M » Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:00 pm

Pack it in your carry on and don't say anything about it. You'll need to pull it out at security, but security isn't going to report you to the airline.

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Re: do any cpaps have FAA approval labels ON THEM?

Post by Heavylids » Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:11 pm

LarryM wrote:I was just told by Aer Lingus that I can't take my CPAP on their plane w/o an FAA approved sticker and a doctor's note (!) even though I HAVE NO INTENTION OF USING IT ON THE PLANE. I only want to use it once I reach my destination.

They're idiots.
This is just idiocy on the part of Aer Lingus. Are they living in the stone age? I was an airline station and operations manager for 18 years and CRO for all those years. The US based airlines I worked for always allowed CPAP devices on their planes as carry-on luggage. CPAP devices were something I trained CSA's to recognize and allow passengers to carry on-board flights. Use was not an option because there was no power source. Batteries unfortunately were considered hazardous and not allowed on the aircraft unless packaged properly. I.e. we would have remove and package sealed lead acid wheelchair batteries in special containers. Other wheel chair battery types had to be disconnected for storage in flight and the terminals insulated so there was no danger of shorting and sparks.

If Aer Lingus is restricting your ability to carry on a CPAP devise they are living so far in the past I'm surprised they are still in business. All a CPAP unit does is blow air. PERIOD. There's nothing hazardous, dangerous or mysterious about it. It's less dangerous than a laptop computer. They are idiots. Find another carrier that will allow you to carry it on.

FAA certification for carrying on board? Why? Airlines can still say no whether FAA approved or not. Customer friendly carriers have been allowing carry on of CPAP units for many years.

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Re: do any cpaps have FAA approval labels ON THEM?

Post by chunkyfrog » Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:02 pm

Don't fly Aer Lingus!
Note": Ireland has a long, bloody history with terrorism.
You may have to stay away from Ireland entirely.

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Re: do any cpaps have FAA approval labels ON THEM?

Post by eeckel » Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:47 pm

I have been thinking of putting together in a packet of information explaining the device and the FAA regulations around it. Has anyone tried this?"
If you do put this together please consider sharing it with us. I'm very glad to here you had a good experience on COPA. I have a flight to Ecuador coming up and I've been anxious about it.

I had been thinking the the most compact and lightweight machines would be best for travel. Now I'm sure what to use for a travel machine.

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Re: do any cpaps have FAA approval labels ON THEM?

Post by Drowsy Dancer » Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:00 am

System One label showing compliance with RTCA/DO-160F (for mobile electronic devices):

Image

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Re: do any cpaps have FAA approval labels ON THEM?

Post by chunkyfrog » Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:24 am

Thank you, DD, for posting the image of the label.
I wonder if this is the one Aer Lingus was referring to, or that one only appears on machines sold in Ireland?
Maybe the airline had finally gotten their heads on straight. (or they are still crammed in the same place as 4 years ago)

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