SAD, sleeping too much

[echo]

Anyone out there suffer from Seasonal Affective Disorder? Any of you think that it's just hoo-haa and have any alternate theories?

I always get depressed when winter rolls around, and it's usually worst in February. Lately I've started sleeping way too much again, and my whole sleep schedule is about 7 timezones off - going to bed too late, waking up too late.

I'm sleeping about 11-12 hours to add to the frustration, and keep feeling like I'm on the verge of cold. I've completely lost my appetite too.

On the plus side, the GERD seems to be better. I still need to reschedule the endoscopy I was supposed to have the other day - the doc said that the OTC pills I was taking would interefere with the endoscopy and possibly mask the GERD, giving a false negative. She said that if the endoscopy came back negative for reflux, then insurance wouldn't cover the proton pump inhibitors, and that the meds were very expensive (100 euro / month). Not that I want to take them for an extended period of time, I'd rather solve the GERD with diet and weight loss.

My AHI is still pretty low. I'm now running in APAP mode with minimum at 8.5, to avoid that the extra pressure aggravates the GERD.

But for a few weeks now I've just been sleeping sooooo much. I'm not getting "depressed", but I am starting to feel pretty down and mental energy levels have dropped, and I'm getting very antisocial again. To top it all off I'm just very frustrated with my life choices. Not sure if that's the cause or the effect. I'm still motivated for work, but not for much else. I'm crying much more easily too - even stupid things I see or read.
I should probably go see a counselor come to think of it....

Any ideas / comments / suggestions / pick-me-ups????

[skittles]

Although you think you are not geting "depressed" it sounds alot like the way I was feeling before I started taking anti-depressants. I had alot going on in my life at the time, and would cry at the drop of a hat. I am now on zoloft -- not proud that I have to take it, but if you knew me you would think that I was the last person on earth to be depressed. I tried going off the zoloft to see what would happen, and the crying started back, dark thoughts would spring up, not sucidal, but not good either.

My sister has the seasonal depression -- her doctor recommended a "green house" type light near her computer to off set it.

I would definitely talk with my doctor -- like I said, I was the last person on earth you would think could get depression, but I have it.

Take CAre

Skittles

[Kiralynx]

Anyone out there suffer from Seasonal Affective Disorder? Any of you think that it's just hoo-haa and have any alternate theories? <snip>
Any ideas / comments / suggestions / pick-me-ups????

Friend of mine in Toronto has SAD. She does light therapy and swears by it.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/season ... er/MH00023

[kteague]

I guess if this happens every year you recognize it and are familiar with all the light suggestions. While I don't have SAD, I had a coworker who did and she benefitted from light therapy. I don't think it is "hoo-haa" because it makes sense that we would feel a "slump" during the winter considering how daylight affects our sleep/wake cycles. And as with anything, we all are affected at different degrees of intensity. With you sleeping much of the daylight hours away, that compounds the problem. Especially since you are prone to this, be kind to yourself and do what's necessary to get on a better sleeping schedule. For me that meant forcing myself to get up early and stay awake a few times no matter how late I went to bed. Didn't take long till I was struggling to wait long enough for it to be a reasonable bedtime.

As far as being frustrated with life choices, I am more than familiar with what it does to our psyche to live in that state. Requires some introspection to come to terms with it. Just in general, don't beat yourself up too much for those choices. No one can see the future, and some of us have even ignored present warnings, but life does go on. Some of those choices we have to make peace with and determine to live our best life even in them. When correction is an option, in my life I've found that when not changing things becomes more painful than the change would be, I will be motivated to act.

All that said, do make sure nothing is going on medically that could contribute to how you are feeling. One good thing about seasonal conditions - they are seasonal. Spring always follows winter.

Kathy

[fortomorrow]

I don't get SAD every year. Last year I didn't. But this year I can already feel it coming down on me like a ton of bricks.

I've never had any luck on psych meds before so I'm not interested in trying them again. Light therapy would be interesting if it weren't so expensive. I wonder if my insurance would cover it.

[echo]

Thanks so much for all the input. I really should talk to my doctor about it, but she is not overly helpful sometimes, and I have had so many bad experiences with doctors just telling me 'it's all in my head' , and getting annoyed when i walk in there with my own pre-diagnosis... I also have a big phobia about taking depression meds (or in fact any long terms meds at that!). I've taken Welbutrin and Zyban to stop smoking, but they made me nuttier than the mad hatter. I couldn't tolerate them, and those are just mild anti-depressants from what I understand.

I'll have to just scrounge up some balls and just go talk to her about it.

[BeanMeScot]

If you have mild symptoms of depression, you should also have your TSH levels checked. If your TSH is high, your thyroid isn't producing enough horomone. I had that 12 years ago. You will have mild depression, fatigue, brain fog, etc. A lot of the symptoms are similar to Apnea, as well.

If your doctor isn't overly helpful, find another one. I really like my doctor but she is part of a mammoth hospital system. That system is more troublesome than she is. It is nearly impossible to talk to her.

[jnk]

I have no doubt some use anti-depressants as a crutch. But I think the opposite is much more common--that there are people who could really benefit from some of those meds if they took the time and trouble to work with a good doctor on getting the right one at the right dose. The brain is an organ of the body that sometimes has some chemical trouble. Some diabetics need insulin; some depressed people need help managing their serotonin. Ever messed much with St. John's wort?

[PhiloHypnos]

I don't think its hoo-ha

I do remember reading that brain serotonin and melatonin levels varry with the amount of sunlight / bright light we are exposed to (less light exposure, less of the former, more of the latter). Serotonin is one of the key neurotransmitters regulating mood (roughly less serotonin, darker mood). And melatonin, among other things, is central to sleep and circadian rythm, and induces sleepiness.

more info here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seasonal_A ... e_Disorder

If you don't want to take SSRI medication, one good alternative for mild to moderate depression is St John's Wort. I've used it before, and it seemed to work for me. http://www.hollandandbarrett.com/VF/Hea ... s_Wort.htm

be careful with supplement - drug interactions though: http://www.hollandandbarrett.com/VF/Hea ... s_Wort.htm

btw, here's agreat source of info for supplements & herbal remedies and interactions: http://www.hollandandbarrett.com/VF/Hea ... ntent=herb

[fuzzy96]

i used to get SAD every winter. it really sucks.used to be i worked outdoors on the cold and it never seemed to bother me , but when i changed jobs so i was imside most of the time it started hitting me. then on top of it i did 5 years on third shift. talk about being a vampire- lol
i checked into those lite boxes for the "therapy " and at the time they were about $150.00 doing some research i found that basically all it is is high intensity full spectrum lights. so off to wally world where i found "daylight" compact florescent bulbs. they are full spectrum. also aquarium lamps are often full spectrum tubes.
i outfitted the whole house with these lights and i save electricity too. plus the bulbs last longer than my "flashcubes" i used to use. that along with getting back out side- hunting in my case seems to have been the ticket for me.
if you are having crying spells you may ned a litttle medication too. just remember most (if not all) antidepressents take some time to build up in your system to get the required effect.
good luck

[Woody]

Echo, I too suffer from SAD. You might look into the light therapy for this. Or talk to your DR. about vitamine D.
It seems one report at the Mayo Clinic said that a very large dose of vitamine D helped a lot. Now vitamine D can
be toxic at very large doses so I subjest looking at that article and perhaps talking to your Dr. about it.

[dsm]

Echo,

Sorry to hear it - not good. Hope you can work your way round it.
We here are wrestling with coming into summer. Sudden temp change does seem to affect therapy.
Have noticed this over the past couple of years. Am still looking into any possibilities for commonality.

Good luck

DSM

[echo]

Wow, just wow. The overwhelming number of replies and support is just , overwhelming. Thank you guys, so much.

BeanMeScot - I have had TSH checked a number of times over the past year. During my first sleep study, it was very high, but in the last two checks it has been normal (as was free T3, T4 or whatever else it is they check). I've always suspected Thyroid issues too (weight gain, fatigue), but so far the verdict seems to be that it's not an issue. I'm still not convinced but not sure what else I can do at this point.

jnk, you're probably spot on as usual. I tried St Johns Wort when I was in college, but (probably because the apnea was never treated then) it didn't really do much. Or I didn't take it long enough. I think I can get that here OTC.

arkein - i had stopped taking melatonin (mostly because I was already sleeping too much), but I was reading some journal articles on sleep issues that triggered some ideas, so I'm taking it again now, just a bit earlier in the night. I'll see if it helps me at least sleep earlier so that I can get up earlier!

fuzzy- interesting idea! good thinking on the reptile lights too... ! Also you hit another point- i need to spend more time outside.

woody - i saw something about vitamin D too. i'll look into it. (when i was a baby, apparnetly my parents gave me tons of vitamin D supplements, on orders of the doc. wonder what effect that had!)

DSM - yes I think you've got something there. I seem to do really poorly at the seasonal changes too. Even my mom said the same thing last week, that she was sleeping more and was tired more since the weather's been changing. I"m not sure if I've ever noticed issues during the winter to spring change, except for maybe hay fever. Do all the seasonal changes seem to affect you? Very interesting point on the temp changes... you know, I always sleep better when it's really hot, in the summer, but during the winter I have a harder time falling asleep (too cold!). If I raise the heat in the bedroom during the winter then it's just too stuffy. I guess like just with everything else, our bodies prefer the natural over the man-made.

thanks again everyone I feel better just knowing that I'm not alone in this either! Now if we could just hibernate like bears...

[StevenJ]

echo, my wife suffers form SAD also. Definitely not hoo haa. Years past there would be times I would walk into the room and she would look like she had just lost her best friend. I'd ask "what''s wrong?" and she's say "I just wish the sun would shine.". I replaced all of the lights in our living room with full spectrum (very similar to grow-lights) and they have made all the difference. I didn't go overboard and light the room up super bright (some of what I read back then gave me the impression that light therapy required pretty high lumen levels . . . but than maybe I was reading that from retailers' websites ) The room has 4-75w ceiling floods and a couple of table lamps with 75w bulbs. All now have the full spectrum bulbs and that has worked for us for about the last 10-years.

Good luck with that. Although I don't suffer from it myslef, I've seen first-hand it's very real.

Steve-

[Shellie_p]

I have it also and during the winter I can get really depressed but I have always gotten around it by spending time sitting in windows that get alot of light. Thankfully right now we have sliding patio doors in the living room so I can open the blinds anytime durring the day and have PLENTY of sunlight to bask in. lol. We are night owls but I still have to have sunlight as much as possible. I have alsways been able to manage it so never sought out a diagnoses.

arkein - i had stopped taking melatonin (mostly because I was already sleeping too much), but I was reading some journal articles on sleep issues that triggered some ideas, so I'm taking it again now, just a bit earlier in the night. I'll see if it helps me at least sleep earlier so that I can get up earlier!

My sons doctor recomended melatonin and stressed that it was important for him to take it regularly and to take it an hour before bedtime to get the best effect. He said it works best if you keep a constant level of it in your system by taking it everyday. He seems to get to sleep much easier then he used to.

fuzzy- interesting idea! good thinking on the reptile lights too... ! Also you hit another point- i need to spend more time outside.

Hmm never though about aquarium lights, will have to look into that one! Bet grow/plant lights would work also.

woody - i saw something about vitamin D too. i'll look into it. (when i was a baby, apparnetly my parents gave me tons of vitamin D supplements, on orders of the doc. wonder what effect that had!)

Vitamin D is produced when our bodys change calcium in reaction to being exposed to sunlight. So it would be reasonable to expect someone with SAD would also be deficient in vitamin D, especially if you dont get exposed to sunlight much. I have to avoid much sunlight cause I'm ghostly plae and burn really easy. But light through house windows doesnt seem to burn? Wonder if household windows filter the light?

DSM - yes I think you've got something there. I seem to do really poorly at the seasonal changes too. Even my mom said the same thing last week, that she was sleeping more and was tired more since the weather's been changing. I"m not sure if I've ever noticed issues during the winter to spring change, except for maybe hay fever. Do all the seasonal changes seem to affect you? Very interesting point on the temp changes... you know, I always sleep better when it's really hot, in the summer, but during the winter I have a harder time falling asleep (too cold!). If I raise the heat in the bedroom during the winter then it's just too stuffy. I guess like just with everything else, our bodies prefer the natural over the man-made.
thanks again everyone I feel better just knowing that I'm not alone in this either! Now if we could just hibernate like bears...

I notice changes with the seasons, spring time seems to be the best for me. I seem to have the most energy, sleep least and desire to get outside more. Wintertime & summer both I do sleep more, as I get older I find I am MUCH more sensitive to temprature changes, Both hot and cold. I like a cooler(65) room for sleeping but at the same time seem to freeze to death easily lately.