New S8 Elite II or Autoset Vantage???

tony22 · Post by **tony22** » Mon May 19, 2008 8:00 am

I'm suspecting the answer is obvious, but I'll ask it anyway...

My DME just called me. I had my sleep doc send over a scrip last week for a new S8 Elite II. I wasn't liking the Escape, which at a pressure of 16 and no EPR was giving me problems breathing out. He had no trouble doing that, but my DME said that because they have not yet decided if they will carry the Elite II (they did carry the older Elite, BTW) there may be an out of pocket cost. OTOH, she is willing to give me as an alternative an Autoset Vantage (which has also been replaced by an Autoset II, but which they also do not yet have).

So am I being stupid for wanting a quiter machine and one that gives me just what I need (EPR)? Or should I jump on the Vantage even though it will not be as quiet as the newer models?

Don't all yell at me at once .

yardbird · Post by **yardbird** » Mon May 19, 2008 10:08 am

get the machine you want. Do not compromise. If you decided on the Elite II and that's what you want, AND the doc wrote a csript for one... then you should get it.

It has the SAME INSURANCE CODE as the Elite. There should not be an out of pocket expense at all. What the DME is telling you is that you are cutting into their absurdly large profit margin. They get paid by insurance code if they are an in-plan provider.

NO out of pocket.... hear me?

NightHawkeye · Post by **NightHawkeye** » Mon May 19, 2008 10:24 am

tony22 wrote:OTOH, she is willing to give me as an alternative an Autoset Vantage (which has also been replaced by an Autoset II, but which they also do not yet have).

So am I being stupid for wanting a quiter machine and one that gives me just what I need (EPR)? Or should I jump on the Vantage even though it will not be as quiet as the newer models?

I'd say consider the Vantage for the APAP capabilities. I have great trouble believing that the Elite II will be that much quieter. I also suspect that if you don't take the APAP now, you'll be kicking yourself a few months down the road for not having taken it. The Vantage does offer EPR in CPAP mode, btw. Of course, I have no first hand experience with the Vantage.

Just my $0.02.

Regards,
Bill

tony22 · Post by **tony22** » Mon May 19, 2008 1:18 pm

I have a call into Resmed. Hoping they'll get back to me on this. On the face of it I agree that getting an APAP would result in a much more capable machine. The Mk.II models are rated for 24dB of noise as oppsed to 31dB for the current S8 line. That (in theory) makes them about 1/4 as loud as the current devices. Don't know if that would really matter. The thing that I'm more concerned about is the information that the newer units may have an improved EPR capability.

If the Mk.IIs are only quieter then it may not be worth the fight for the out-of-pocket, especially as my DME called me back and confirmed it would be $125 OOP. And she also said that if I got the Vantage she'd throw in the software for nothing. But if the new ones are better at EPR I may put up the fight. Not quite sure just how, though.

ColinP · Post by **ColinP** » Mon May 19, 2008 2:17 pm

I'd take the Elite II. The new technology and quieter running seem a better deal than APAP to me. I'm not convinced that the algorithms for APAP work all that well, and while it may take a bit longer to find your correct pressure, you can treat yourself perfectly well on CPAP.

Colin

sleeplessinaz · Post by **sleeplessinaz** » Mon May 19, 2008 2:25 pm

I vote for the Resmed Elite --it is a wonderful machine --quiet and is compact. Mine works great--I love, love it!!! the humidifier attaches right to the front so it looks like all one piece --the hose attachment is perfect and the LED screens can be read very easily---go for it!!

Carrie

Shilohcane · Post by **Shilohcane** » Mon May 19, 2008 2:47 pm

tony22 wrote: The Mk.II models are rated for 24dB of noise as oppsed to 31dB for the current S8 line. That (in theory) makes them about 1/4 as loud as the current devices. Don't know if that would really matter.

I want to buy the S8 AutoSet™ II with Easy-Breathe.

Decibel's are hard to understand since they increase in sound pressure as a ratio. Decibel are logarithmic measurement of two sounds expressing the magnitude as a ratio.

The simple way to understand db is just to relate sounds you know to a db level since no human would think 100 db is twice as loud as a 50 db sound level.

Broadcasting Studio or a Rustling Leaves equals 20 db.

Library or Soft Whisper (5 Meter) equals 30 db.

Living Room or Quiet Office equals 40 db.

Light Traffic (50 Meter) or Average family Home equals 50 db.

Firecrackers or Subway Train equals 100 db.

Thunderclap or Air Raid Siren 1 Meter equals 130 db.

(more)

http://www.jimprice.com/prosound/db.htm

tony22 · Post by **tony22** » Mon May 19, 2008 4:18 pm

I just got off the phone with Resmed. I spoke with their Clinical Tech Support person (a nice woman named Cindy) and here's what I got:

The new Easy Breathe algorithm in the Mk.II models seems to be "new" mostly as a result of the new motor and new dual impeller design. While it does promote a more rounded sinus pattern, users who've tried the Elite II (for example) typically find no significant difference it its EPR capability when compared to the (current) Elite.

One new item is that the algorithm now allows for EPR capability on the Autoset II during APAP mode (not just CPAP).

The new algorithm is not backward compatible to the current models (via firmware upgrade, for example).

Carrie, I am already using the Escape with the H3i humidifier so I am familiar with the design. I agree it is nicely put together. The Autoset Vantage loses nothing in comparison to the current Elite, and if anything is an even more flexible machine - if you believe in APAP being an effective diagnostic aid.

Colin, having never tried APAP I guess I can't judge, but if the Resmed Tech is not giving me a load of bull then it seems I may not be losing much (except machine noise) in taking advantage of the Vantage (no pun intended!). I suspect the OOP cost demanded by the DME has more to do with penalizing me for not taking something they have in existing stock. I suspect the price of an Elite II will still be less than that of an Autoset Vantage plus software, and they're going to give that to me at no additional OOP cost.

zorrro13 · Post by **zorrro13** » Mon May 19, 2008 6:00 pm

I have owned both. The elite II in AUTO mode has ZERO resistance at 10cm. I have not used EPR on the II why bother when you have no resistance in Auto mode? I use the auto as a Cpap by setting it at my
prescribed pressure and then let the machine handle any increases due to back sleeping or the odd glass of wine. The quietness is just a bonus and I use the Vantage as a back up only

tony22 · Post by **tony22** » Mon May 19, 2008 6:32 pm

zorro13, I would love to hear any further thoughts on whether you think I should go for the Vantage.

Edit: zorro13, I just looked at the Elite II manual on-line and can't find anything about an AUTO mode. Are you refeering to the Elite II when you said this or the Autoset Vantage?

markinOz · Post by **markinOz** » Mon May 19, 2008 6:44 pm

Hi all,

Forgive me if I am wrong, but the S8 AutoSet Spirit II is an APAP machine. You can set the pressure if you want and put the machine in CPAP mode. As far as I'm concerned, when I am buying a new machine I want the latest now. We all know that in 2 years it will be obsolete.

I am looking to update my S7 to this machine, however I am waiting for some decent pricing out tof the States before I purchase.

Keep on breathing and sleeping.

yorkiemum01 · Post by **yorkiemum01** » Mon May 19, 2008 6:56 pm

My first machine, as like yours, was the Elite, but my physician did
acknowledge my exhalation issue and ordered the Vantage. For me, the difference has been night and day..........I'm sleeping without feeling like
I'm in the 'big fight', as straight CPAP made me feel when exhaling. Been using the Vantage w/EPR for over a month now, and suspect with rental fees, I'll just outright purchase one in the next month or so. Can only report my personal experience, and hope things work out well for you. While in rental period, dont hesitate to try out all your options. What may suite one, may not another, and trail and error is part of the therapy. Hang in there!

Snoredog · Post by **Snoredog** » Mon May 19, 2008 6:59 pm

STICK to your guns, threaten to take your business elsewhere, you should not have to accept sub-standard equipment because your DME is a Resmed dealer

zorrro13 · Post by **zorrro13** » Mon May 19, 2008 7:23 pm

tony22 wrote:zorro13, I would love to hear any further thoughts on whether you think I should go for the Vantage.

Sorry Tony I meant the S8 auto spirit II. Difficult to stay on top of different names in different countries

zorrro13 · Post by **zorrro13** » Mon May 19, 2008 9:11 pm

[quote="tony22"]zorro13, I would love to hear any further thoughts on whether you think I should go for the Vantage.

Edit: zorro13, I just looked at the Elite II manual on-line and can't find anything about an AUTO mode. Are you refeering to the Elite II when you said this or the Autoset Vantage?

Machine	Mask	Humidifier

Additional Comments: new Airsense auto set 12/08/14. Cpap pressure is

New S8 Elite II or Autoset Vantage???

New S8 Elite II or Autoset Vantage???

Re: New S8 Elite II or Autoset Vantage???