I need to update my thread about the DIY mouthguard. While it seems like such a great idea, it did not work for me. My design was elegant. It seemed to be perfectly formed. But it didn't keep my mouth from leaking. Sigh. I'll have to try something else. But the paper tape is seriously working for me now, so seems silly to change.
jen
Chin strap or oral plug?
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socknitster
- Posts: 1740
- Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:55 am
- Location: Pennsylvania
- Contact:
_________________
| Machine: ResMed AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier |
| Mask: ResMed AirFit™ F30 Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear |
-
Wulfman...
Why don't you just cut to the chase and get a GOOD full face mask?
By the time you wrap and tape and strap all that stuff around your head and face, you'll probably be more "confined" than you would be with a FF mask.
Your pressure might be a little too low, too. Your mouth might be falling open because you're not able to get enough air through your nasal mask and you're using your mouth to suppliment it. Full face masks also make it easier to breathe through the nose.....but you can also breathe through the mouth if you HAVE to.
Den
By the time you wrap and tape and strap all that stuff around your head and face, you'll probably be more "confined" than you would be with a FF mask.
Your pressure might be a little too low, too. Your mouth might be falling open because you're not able to get enough air through your nasal mask and you're using your mouth to suppliment it. Full face masks also make it easier to breathe through the nose.....but you can also breathe through the mouth if you HAVE to.
Den
Hey Den, what part of Hans Rudolph don't you understand? I think she's already got a FF.
Me, I can't take the heat and sore skin a FF causes me. I'm happy with my chinstrap.
And that's true for many of us. Including Socknitster.
Cheers,
Babs
Me, I can't take the heat and sore skin a FF causes me. I'm happy with my chinstrap.
And that's true for many of us. Including Socknitster.
Cheers,
Babs
_________________
| Machine: PR System One REMStar 60 Series Auto CPAP Machine |
| Additional Comments: Started XPAP 04/20/07. APAP currently wide open 10-20. Consistent AHI 2.1. No flex. HH 3. Deluxe Chinstrap. |
I currently have a stash of Nasal Aire II cannulas in Small or Extra Small. Please PM me if you would like them. I'm interested in bartering for something strange and wonderful that I don't currently own. Or a Large size NAII cannula. 
-
Wulfman...
HUH???Babette wrote:Hey Den, what part of Hans Rudolph don't you understand? I think she's already got a FF.
Me, I can't take the heat and sore skin a FF causes me. I'm happy with my chinstrap.
And that's true for many of us. Including Socknitster.
Cheers,
Babs
The only reference to "Hans Rudolph" in this thread is in socknitster's sig lines. Everything else in this thread has referred to nasal pillows, oral devices, mouthguards, tape, adhesive strips, straps, etc. (oh, and "porn" from Oceanpearl)
And, my quote was to get a "GOOD full face mask".....and although everybody's mileage will vary, I've not heard of more than a couple of people who could make a Hans Rudolph mask work for them, so I wouldn't consider them in the category of "good".
You can wear what you want......I was addressing my post to DreamDiver.
(actually, EVERYBODY should at least HAVE a full face mask in their "arsenal")
Best wishes,
Den
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DreamDiver
- Posts: 3082
- Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2007 11:19 am
My Polygrip Night - and Thanks
First, I want to say thanks to everyone for the great suggestions, links and resources.
Second, I tried the polygrip strips and now have an idea what that's like. Let me tell you my experience.
From the previous night's experimentation, I realized that if I did have something blocking the front of my mouth, my cheeks blow up like Satchmo's on a trumpet. That's quite comical at 7cm, but I suspect it could be painful at higher pressures or over longer endurances. So, I created a sleeve to put over my mouth, sort of like a turtle neck, out of fleece. I used two clips from an athletic bandage to cinch the sleeve tight around my cheeks. I tested it and found that it kept my cheeks from blowing out sufficiently to be comfortable. I rolled the one edge down so my nose had access to the swift II. That felt comfortable. So much for testing.
Next I brushed my teeth and applied two strips to my lips. It takes a few minutes for them to seal properly, but I was able to wrap and cinch the sleeve conveniently while it was drying. I put on my snorkel and went to sleep.
My wife was pretty much freaked out, not only by the concept but the appearance. She told me several times to wake her if I was having any trouble.
It worked fine for a while, but I noticed that if I let me muscles go completely slack, with the cheeks not giving, my tongue was forced back into the throat with each c-flexion by the air pressure in my mouth - not to the point of choking, but uncomfortable. I found myself putting a towel under my chin as a chin chock again, and that helped keep my mouth closed enough to keep it from filling with air.
About 4:00am, I ended up taking it off because the neck-sleeve was too hot and the bits of strip hanging inside my mouth were feeling "fuzzy." I used cough syrup to remove it without brushing my teeth again. (Glycerin is often a main component of cough syrup and is great for removing these kinds of gums.) Got some water, put the head hose back on and used my hand towel chin chock without any polygrip.
I think the polygrip helped me learn more about whether and how other methods might be effective. For instance, just tape alone won't be enough. I don't like feeling my cheeks ballooning out. The sleeve idea solved that, but it can be hot. A strap might be better.
I tried a mouth guard from a local athletic shop. When my mouth goes slack, it floats between the teeth uselessly. It also tastes like it's dissolving as it sits in my mouth. I'm not sure I like that. What am I ingesting, eh?
The Vent-Free Appliance might work well for some, but I can just about guarantee the air would slip past the teeth from behind the molars. I suspect it would sound like a horse braying.
My wife saw the picture of the guy wearing the total face seal and her eyes bulged. "You are NOT wearing one of those!" She thought it would make me look like cadaver. It makes me think of the twighlight zone episode of the people storing themselves in tupperware at night. https://www.cpap.com/productpage/total- ... onics.html
Update: Sorry if I have offended those who are using the total.
I might be willing to try a full face if someone with a beard and mustache can tell me it works for them. They look comfortable too, and don't smack of BDSM for those TSM officials rifling through my baggage.
https://www.cpap.com/productpage/comfor ... dgear.html
https://www.cpap.com/productpage/resmed ... dgear.html
The sleepzone lipseal from Australia looks like a good bet. It looks like it keeps your cheeks from ballooning. I just have to decide whether I want to spend AUS$90 for something to shut my mouth for me, still not knowing if it would work. http://www.sleepzone.com.au/
Second, I tried the polygrip strips and now have an idea what that's like. Let me tell you my experience.
From the previous night's experimentation, I realized that if I did have something blocking the front of my mouth, my cheeks blow up like Satchmo's on a trumpet. That's quite comical at 7cm, but I suspect it could be painful at higher pressures or over longer endurances. So, I created a sleeve to put over my mouth, sort of like a turtle neck, out of fleece. I used two clips from an athletic bandage to cinch the sleeve tight around my cheeks. I tested it and found that it kept my cheeks from blowing out sufficiently to be comfortable. I rolled the one edge down so my nose had access to the swift II. That felt comfortable. So much for testing.
Next I brushed my teeth and applied two strips to my lips. It takes a few minutes for them to seal properly, but I was able to wrap and cinch the sleeve conveniently while it was drying. I put on my snorkel and went to sleep.
My wife was pretty much freaked out, not only by the concept but the appearance. She told me several times to wake her if I was having any trouble.
It worked fine for a while, but I noticed that if I let me muscles go completely slack, with the cheeks not giving, my tongue was forced back into the throat with each c-flexion by the air pressure in my mouth - not to the point of choking, but uncomfortable. I found myself putting a towel under my chin as a chin chock again, and that helped keep my mouth closed enough to keep it from filling with air.
About 4:00am, I ended up taking it off because the neck-sleeve was too hot and the bits of strip hanging inside my mouth were feeling "fuzzy." I used cough syrup to remove it without brushing my teeth again. (Glycerin is often a main component of cough syrup and is great for removing these kinds of gums.) Got some water, put the head hose back on and used my hand towel chin chock without any polygrip.
I think the polygrip helped me learn more about whether and how other methods might be effective. For instance, just tape alone won't be enough. I don't like feeling my cheeks ballooning out. The sleeve idea solved that, but it can be hot. A strap might be better.
I tried a mouth guard from a local athletic shop. When my mouth goes slack, it floats between the teeth uselessly. It also tastes like it's dissolving as it sits in my mouth. I'm not sure I like that. What am I ingesting, eh?
The Vent-Free Appliance might work well for some, but I can just about guarantee the air would slip past the teeth from behind the molars. I suspect it would sound like a horse braying.
My wife saw the picture of the guy wearing the total face seal and her eyes bulged. "You are NOT wearing one of those!" She thought it would make me look like cadaver. It makes me think of the twighlight zone episode of the people storing themselves in tupperware at night. https://www.cpap.com/productpage/total- ... onics.html
Update: Sorry if I have offended those who are using the total.
I might be willing to try a full face if someone with a beard and mustache can tell me it works for them. They look comfortable too, and don't smack of BDSM for those TSM officials rifling through my baggage.
https://www.cpap.com/productpage/comfor ... dgear.html
https://www.cpap.com/productpage/resmed ... dgear.html
The sleepzone lipseal from Australia looks like a good bet. It looks like it keeps your cheeks from ballooning. I just have to decide whether I want to spend AUS$90 for something to shut my mouth for me, still not knowing if it would work. http://www.sleepzone.com.au/
_________________
| Mask: ResMed AirFit™ F20 Mask with Headgear + 2 Replacement Cushions |
| Additional Comments: Pressure: APAP 10.4 | 11.8 | Also Quattro FX FF, Simplus FF |
Last edited by DreamDiver on Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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socknitster
- Posts: 1740
- Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:55 am
- Location: Pennsylvania
- Contact:
Hey, Den,
I agree with you. A full face mask in the arsenal is a great idea. Everyone should have the opportunity to try every type of mask out there! And even different brands within a type. For example the best fitting pillows mask for me is Resmed Swift, tho I have tried most of the other manufacturers.
For, some, however the geometry of face won't allow ANY ff mask to work. I have tried every one on the market except Soyala and the only one that will acheive seal for me is hans rudolph. The rest don't even come close! That said, the hans rudolph isn't comfortable enough for all-night wear--not hans rudolph's fault.
The reason behind all this bullshit? I have a receded chin/lower jaw like a lot of other folks on here who can't seem to get full face masks to work for them. I hope that I can get the manufacturers to address this subset of people now that I think I have figured out the reason for the problem.
The issue is pressure on the upper part of the mask frame. If the jaw is receded and the forehead and nose are not, the pressure is going to occur at the forehead or nose and/or you will have leaks around the chin. Tighten the mask to eliminate leaks and the pain you will suffer and damage to skin etc is unbearable. Makes compliance impossible with this type of mask.
That is why I tape and use a pillows mask. I used to wear a chinstrap too, but found that using a stonger tape--3M paper tape--I don't need the chinstrap too.
The real debacle here? That all these intricaces of facial geometry and fit aren't being addressed. . . yet. Hopefully they will be in the future. Until then we will have to do what we can to deal with it.
I haven't had a bad cold yet since going on cpap. I don't have a clue what I will do if my nose is too stopped up to use pillows. My nasal airway is pretty clean due to nasal surgery about a year ago, but a cold could cut that right off.
My .02. No need to get crabby about it. Unless, that is, you are going to write a letter to Resmed, Respironics and Fisher and Paykel about it.
jen
I agree with you. A full face mask in the arsenal is a great idea. Everyone should have the opportunity to try every type of mask out there! And even different brands within a type. For example the best fitting pillows mask for me is Resmed Swift, tho I have tried most of the other manufacturers.
For, some, however the geometry of face won't allow ANY ff mask to work. I have tried every one on the market except Soyala and the only one that will acheive seal for me is hans rudolph. The rest don't even come close! That said, the hans rudolph isn't comfortable enough for all-night wear--not hans rudolph's fault.
The reason behind all this bullshit? I have a receded chin/lower jaw like a lot of other folks on here who can't seem to get full face masks to work for them. I hope that I can get the manufacturers to address this subset of people now that I think I have figured out the reason for the problem.
The issue is pressure on the upper part of the mask frame. If the jaw is receded and the forehead and nose are not, the pressure is going to occur at the forehead or nose and/or you will have leaks around the chin. Tighten the mask to eliminate leaks and the pain you will suffer and damage to skin etc is unbearable. Makes compliance impossible with this type of mask.
That is why I tape and use a pillows mask. I used to wear a chinstrap too, but found that using a stonger tape--3M paper tape--I don't need the chinstrap too.
The real debacle here? That all these intricaces of facial geometry and fit aren't being addressed. . . yet. Hopefully they will be in the future. Until then we will have to do what we can to deal with it.
I haven't had a bad cold yet since going on cpap. I don't have a clue what I will do if my nose is too stopped up to use pillows. My nasal airway is pretty clean due to nasal surgery about a year ago, but a cold could cut that right off.
My .02. No need to get crabby about it. Unless, that is, you are going to write a letter to Resmed, Respironics and Fisher and Paykel about it.
jen
_________________
| Machine: ResMed AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier |
| Mask: ResMed AirFit™ F30 Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear |
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Wulfman...
DreamDiver,
If I were you, I wouldn't bother with the Comfortfull 2. I'd go with the UMFF or the Quattro (or both, if you have a few extra bucks). Make sure you get your mask (whatever you decide to get) sized correctly. If it's too small, it'll more than likely hurt the bridge of your nose and if it's too big, it's probably going to leak. Go to CPAP.COM's site and use their mask-fitting guide.....use option #5. If you find the measurement exactly halfway between sizes, I'd recommend going with the next larger size.
.
.
Jen/socknitster,
There's probably a mask out there for everybody....
What a lot of us have found with adjusting full face masks is to put all of the tension on the lower straps and leave the upper ones very loose. I would THINK that that would work with the facial geometry you described ("receded chin/lower jaw"). I don't have that particular issue to deal with so I can't speak from personal experience. (on the other hand, I don't have a jaw like Jay Leno's, either)
Actually, ResMed does have a patient advocacy representative. I posted my e-mail exchange with her sometime back (Quattro leakage issue). I'm not holding my breath for any further responses, though.
viewtopic.php?p=198456
Best wishes for good sleeping.
Den (not REALLY crabby today)
If I were you, I wouldn't bother with the Comfortfull 2. I'd go with the UMFF or the Quattro (or both, if you have a few extra bucks). Make sure you get your mask (whatever you decide to get) sized correctly. If it's too small, it'll more than likely hurt the bridge of your nose and if it's too big, it's probably going to leak. Go to CPAP.COM's site and use their mask-fitting guide.....use option #5. If you find the measurement exactly halfway between sizes, I'd recommend going with the next larger size.
.
.
Jen/socknitster,
There's probably a mask out there for everybody....
What a lot of us have found with adjusting full face masks is to put all of the tension on the lower straps and leave the upper ones very loose. I would THINK that that would work with the facial geometry you described ("receded chin/lower jaw"). I don't have that particular issue to deal with so I can't speak from personal experience. (on the other hand, I don't have a jaw like Jay Leno's, either)
Actually, ResMed does have a patient advocacy representative. I posted my e-mail exchange with her sometime back (Quattro leakage issue). I'm not holding my breath for any further responses, though.
viewtopic.php?p=198456
Best wishes for good sleeping.
Den (not REALLY crabby today)
-
socknitster
- Posts: 1740
- Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:55 am
- Location: Pennsylvania
- Contact:
Wulfman,
Thanks for posting that. I just sent a heartfelt email to Sandra at Resmed regarding this. I am pretty sure I have done it before, but I will keep doing it and sending similar messages to the other big manufacturers until I get a satisfactory result.
BTW, you better believe I tried every configuration possible to get those masks to fit me. They just DON'T fit. I had the motivation. It just wasn't possible.
Jen
Thanks for posting that. I just sent a heartfelt email to Sandra at Resmed regarding this. I am pretty sure I have done it before, but I will keep doing it and sending similar messages to the other big manufacturers until I get a satisfactory result.
BTW, you better believe I tried every configuration possible to get those masks to fit me. They just DON'T fit. I had the motivation. It just wasn't possible.
Jen
_________________
| Machine: ResMed AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier |
| Mask: ResMed AirFit™ F30 Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Diver, I think your solution is very similar to something that JeffH from Oklahoma came up with, to stop his "blowfish". This is what we call cheeks blowing out when you seal the lips. He posted a pic of it a few weeks ago. Do a search for posts by JeffH and see if it comes up.
I'll PM him and ask him to post the link here, if he can.
Cheers,
B.
I'll PM him and ask him to post the link here, if he can.
Cheers,
B.
_________________
| Machine: PR System One REMStar 60 Series Auto CPAP Machine |
| Additional Comments: Started XPAP 04/20/07. APAP currently wide open 10-20. Consistent AHI 2.1. No flex. HH 3. Deluxe Chinstrap. |
I currently have a stash of Nasal Aire II cannulas in Small or Extra Small. Please PM me if you would like them. I'm interested in bartering for something strange and wonderful that I don't currently own. Or a Large size NAII cannula.
-
DreamDiver
- Posts: 3082
- Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2007 11:19 am
Mouth
_________________
| Mask: ResMed AirFit™ F20 Mask with Headgear + 2 Replacement Cushions |
| Additional Comments: Pressure: APAP 10.4 | 11.8 | Also Quattro FX FF, Simplus FF |
-
DreamDiver
- Posts: 3082
- Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2007 11:19 am
Wulfman,
I might go with the UMFF. From all the reviews, it really does seem to boil down to whether it will fit or not.
Thanks
I might go with the UMFF. From all the reviews, it really does seem to boil down to whether it will fit or not.
Thanks
Wulfman... wrote:DreamDiver,
If I were you, I wouldn't bother with the Comfortfull 2. I'd go with the UMFF or the Quattro (or both, if you have a few extra bucks). Make sure you get your mask (whatever you decide to get) sized correctly. If it's too small, it'll more than likely hurt the bridge of your nose and if it's too big, it's probably going to leak. Go to CPAP.COM's site and use their mask-fitting guide.....use option #5. If you find the measurement exactly halfway between sizes, I'd recommend going with the next larger size.
_________________
| Mask: ResMed AirFit™ F20 Mask with Headgear + 2 Replacement Cushions |
| Additional Comments: Pressure: APAP 10.4 | 11.8 | Also Quattro FX FF, Simplus FF |
I have to agree with Babs on that oneAnonymous wrote:Too late for the patent. It's called a "ball gag" in the BDSM community...
LOL,
Barbara
_________________
| Mask | ||||
 | ||||
| Additional Comments: Also using: 1. Pad A Cheek head gear covers. 2. Respironics comfort select nasal mask. 3. Pur-Sleep aromatherapy. Pressure 16 straight CPAP. | ||||
Getting to were I miss my full beard (have been mouth taping for about 8 months) and decided to try Polident strips last night. Worked like a charm. I was surprised.
Look out, hairy face on it's way back. Started too late to look like Santa, though.
JeffH
Look out, hairy face on it's way back. Started too late to look like Santa, though.
JeffH
_________________
| Mask | Humidifier | |||
 |  | |||
| Additional Comments: Equipment isn't correct, S9 ASV w/H5i | ||||
The poligrip strips work well for me, but I found they caused lip irritation after a while.
I stopped using them and discovered that my lips had been "trained" enough to stay closed without the strip.
Had some lip-flap nights, went back to the strips for a few nights to retrain, then all was well again.
Shari
I stopped using them and discovered that my lips had been "trained" enough to stay closed without the strip.
Had some lip-flap nights, went back to the strips for a few nights to retrain, then all was well again.
Shari
_________________
| Humidifier | ||||
 | ||||
| Additional Comments: Pressure 16 cm H2O at altitude 6550ft | ||||
Jeff - Santa can have a soul patch.
LOL,
B.
LOL,
B.
_________________
| Machine: PR System One REMStar 60 Series Auto CPAP Machine |
| Additional Comments: Started XPAP 04/20/07. APAP currently wide open 10-20. Consistent AHI 2.1. No flex. HH 3. Deluxe Chinstrap. |
I currently have a stash of Nasal Aire II cannulas in Small or Extra Small. Please PM me if you would like them. I'm interested in bartering for something strange and wonderful that I don't currently own. Or a Large size NAII cannula.