I Seem To Kill CPAP Machines.

[BigGuyXXL]

Hello All –

I am new to the forum and I am here hoping to find the answer to a question that has been bothering me.

I have been using a CPAP machine since May of 2001. At that time I was given a REMstar Plus CPAP machine with the passover humidifier. I still have this machine with well over 9000 hours on it. I cannot imagine life without my CPAP.

In August of 2005 (about) I changed insurance companies and coincidently gained some weight. I started to have the same feelings of excessive tiredness etc and I went in for a titration study. After the study, they increased my pressures from 12 to 17.5 . With the increase in pressure the doctor recommended I change to a CFlex machine. Since I had a new insurance company with DME – they covered the new machine.

Either I have some sort of problem or this machine (or machines as it is) has problems. I am now on my 6th machine. The first three lasted about 3 months each and got errors E-23 and E-24. My 4th and 5th machines failed with E-47. Thank heavens the DME supplier has replaced each of them under warranty but I hate to keep having problems with them. If I am away (I travel for business) I don’t carry my spare – so I am without until I can get it exchanged.

I think I am doing everything ‘right’ on my end: I only use distilled water, I change the filters every month and use a surge protector to plug it in (a suggestion after the third one died).

Almost forgot the new machine(s) is the REMstar Auto C-Flex CPAP machine.

I am wondering if anyone else has had problems with this machine or has had success traveling with one. By success traveling I mean packing it up four times a week, carrying it on airplanes and through security. The traveling is the only thing I can pick out that I seem to be doing differently.

Thanks in Advance –

Derek

[dsm]

Hi Big Guy,

That many failed machines is amazing. Is it typically that same error code ?

1st Q if so is what causes that particular code. The other obvious question is were the replacement machines new ones or refurbished ones - did they have any pre existing blower hours - but I realise you probably didn:t check that when getting them.

One other line of thought is if there is in your case, excessive moisture or water getting back into the machine through the air hose. Seems an improbable line to follow but is worth exploring.

Good luck with the current one

DSM

[birdshell]

I have an acquaintance who has had the same CPAP machine for 20 years.

He participated in a study and the machine was given to him for the purposes of the research being done.

In light of that, it really does not make sense for your machines to have given out so quickly and so often, does it? I wonder if that machine is still available--of course, it has got to be as basic as can be. If anyone has it, I believe DSM would--in his collection of "xPAP Machines through the Years".

Statistically, there is a chance that such a chain of machine failures could happen. However, that chance has got to be very minute.

I am so sorry that you have had the flow generator failures. It must be stressful to think that the machine(s) might quit on you while traveling. That is just when one would need to be at one's best, isn't it? I have actually had the occasional night (2 in my first year) without my CPAP, and find it takes several days of therapy afterward to recover.

Do you carry your xPAP onto the plane as hand luggage? (Sorry, you probably do so but I had to ask.) Others have got to take them through the X-ray machines and have them swabbed frequently--surely airport security doesn't take them in the back and play football with them?

There are computerized components to all of these modern machines, I believe. Is there ANY chance of a magnetic field affecting the computer components? Magnets can still wreak havoc with computer equipment, I believe. Not knowing the meaning of the error codes, which may put a cause to the failures, wouldn't the magnetic damage potentially cause various error codes to appear with each incidence of failure?

I don't pack mine up for airline travel, but have packed it up an average of twice a week for the past year with no ill effects that I have observed. Of course, it is recalled by ResMed and should be replaced. I doubt if mine has any problems based on the description of the flaw causing the recall, but who can know about such mechanical problems? I am thinking of the humidifier leaks suffered by the RemStar M-Series machines. (Those have been fixed now, haven't they?)

I hope that you have a better streak of luck with your machine now, and/or find the problem. If you do find the problem, would you please post your findings here so that others may learn? Thank you, and best wishes.

Karen

_________________

CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): cpap machine, resmed, humidifier, CPAP, Travel

[Goofproof]

When you got your machine was it new, the patient hours can be reset by anyone, but the total blower hours can't. Also you DME may be making his profit pawning used machines as new, or repaired ones that have failed.

Then a traveling, theres the bad handleing factor and the water factor.

Two faliures would be a cloud following you, three would be the devil. Make sure the SN's don't end with 666. Jim

[BadThad]

Could be electrical, have you considered putting on a UPS (Uninterruptable Power Supply)?

[Linda3032]

Derek, the machine you are using has a reliable working history so you should not be having these repeat problems.

Are you sure that you are not overfilling the humidifier and getting water into the machine? Even a few drops left in the humidifier tank can leak back into the machine and cause problems.

Has your DME returned the machines to Respironics to find out what the problems have been and what may have caused them?

[Slinky]

I'd be inclined to contact Respironics directly with full information.

My first thought, of course, was are you separating the machine and the humidifier when traveling? Drying the humidifier tank as much as possible? Maybe stuff a soft rag into the outlet before packing to absorb any drops of water you couldn't get out of the tank.

I don't travel that much but after using my S8 Elite and Humidaire 3i that last night at the motel when you have to check out before noon, I empty the Humidaire 3i tank as well as I can and then I stuff a thin wash cloth in the outlet, put it in a plastic bag w/tie and THEN put it in my Elite carrying case.

[higgy]

Good thread, when I travel with my a flex I just shake the tank dry and reinstall. I may not be getting it dry enough. I will start to use some sort of towel before moving the unit to stop any water droplets from getting in the machine.

Thanks

[BigGuyXXL]

Thanks for all the great questions and advice.

I am not sure the machines were brand new – they looked it, the patient hours were zero, the film was still over the LED, and the serial numbers where always different.

I do take my tank off from the CPAP when traveling and wipe it pretty well. I like the zip lock bag idea too. As for the UPS – I used a surge protecting UPS strip until it got to be a hassle with the TSA – but still use a surge protector (no batteries in it).

I always carry my CPAP onto the plane – it is never checked – could never get past the old Samsonite luggage commercials with the apes <smile>. I don’t know if there is some harm from the XRay – though Respironics says no.

Of the 5 that have gone back – my RT has tracked three of them that came back after repair. All of them had the main board <?> replaced. Number 4 was never returned and they (DME) were given a credit for it.

I am hoping for the best on this one. I am also looking forward to learning a lot from all of you in the forum.

Derek

[DeltaSeeker]

Hmm, I don't know about x-ray effect on the machines, but I sure discovered how powerful magnets are tonight! I noticed my son's TV was showing purple at the top left corner and tried messing with the color settings. Was sure the TV was going out. Then I noticed the "super magnets" on his lamp a few feet away from the TV. Sure enough, when I took the magnets the color got better. Just for grins I moved the magnets closer. Whoa - like psychedelic man! Swirls of color all over the TV! Now silly me can't fix the color again. As soon as I get it right and swiftly move the magnets away, the color variation comes back. Sometimes better, sometimes worse! Gee, I wonder if those stupid things had anything to do with the hard drive failure of his PC?!?!? I think it's time for those buggers to disappear big time! Especially since I just bought a new computer to replace mine which I'll pass on to him.

Circuit board failures? Any strong magnetic fields around?

Linda

[Tazman]

Glad I found this thread. I'm sitting in Wichata Kansas ( I live in VA) for the second night without my machine. Turned the machine off on my first morning here and within a few seconds it starting beeping and displaying an e-47 code.

I call my RT in Va and they couldn't find what that code meant. They did offer to Fedex me a new one overnight since mine was still under warrenty. I thank them, but since i was leaving in two days I told them I'd just come by the day after I get back. (redeye flight)

Get this they asked if I had somone that could come and pick up the new one so I'd have it the night I get home!! The RT said I could return the broken one within the next few days. All I can say they've offered everything they could for me. My girlfriend went by today to get it and they had it waiting for her!

I company here in Wichta called Respironics for me trying to find out what may be wrong with it. They told him it sounded like water got inside the unit.
HMMM....I've been trying to figure it out myself, but I don't have a clue how that could have happened.

Reguardless, I feel both companys in VA and here in KS, went abouve and beyond for me. I was truely impressed. When I get home I'm going to write a letter to the MFG letting them know of this superior customer service. That is after I get a good nights sleep! LOL

[Slinky]

Hmm, I don't know about x-ray effect on the machines, but I sure discovered how powerful magnets are tonight! I noticed my son's TV was showing purple at the top left corner and tried messing with the color settings. Was sure the TV was going out. Then I noticed the "super magnets" on his lamp a few feet away from the TV. Sure enough, when I took the magnets the color got better. Just for grins I moved the magnets closer. Whoa - like psychedelic man! Swirls of color all over the TV! Now silly me can't fix the color again. As soon as I get it right and swiftly move the magnets away, the color variation comes back. Sometimes better, sometimes worse! ...

I wonder about what they call degauzing or something like that? I remember having a color TV years ago that twice after thunderstorms went bonkers as you describe and the TV repair guy just came out and passed something in front of it, I'm sure he called it degauzing or similar sounding and we had good picture and color again.

[kennethryan]

There are computerized components to all of these modern machines, I believe. Is there ANY chance of a magnetic field affecting the computer components? Magnets can still wreak havoc with computer equipment, I believe. Not knowing the meaning of the error codes, which may put a cause to the failures, wouldn't the magnetic damage potentially cause various error codes to appear with each incidence of failure?

Just a general FYI:

Normal steady magnetic fields won't affect solid-state electronics. Varying magnetic fields incur electric fields which could conceivably harm electronics but if that was the case then no laptop or cellphone would survive (the low-voltage stuff is much more sensitive). The blower motor could be affected by a magnetic field, but the field would have to be a couple Tesla (the strength of an MRI machine) and again you would see other obvious effects like keys and pens flying across the room.

Magnetic fields would have more of an effect on rotating media (hard disks) but again the drive's own enclosure protects it to a large extent. Again, a field sufficiently strong is unlikely in a public environment.

Strong X-rays could corrupt the flash memory in the unit, this was the original reason people squawked about electronics going through X-ray. But it was proven that even back then the x-rays used by airport security were not strong enough (unless you kept beaming the equipment for a couple hours) and today's machines use very low power levels. So this is more likely than electromagnetic fields but less likely than other things.

The area I can envision being a concern is electrostatic discharge (especially in the dry air of a commercial aircraft or from the latex gloves typically used by airport security) or a problem with your electrical outlet at home.

I'll follow up with the latter point in another post, since you may not have read this far in this long-winded prose... :-)

ken

[kennethryan]

One possibility (that I mentioned in my previous post) is your electrical outlet at home. An older machine could have a more robust power supply or a different grounding scheme, allowing the machine to operate properly even with a defective outlet.

If you haven't tested it yourself, now is the time. A simple outlet tester can be had for about $5 at Radio Shack or a local hardware store. It looks like a three-prong plug with no cord and three LEDs, and is a snap to use. Just plug it in to the outlet, and look at the pattern of lights - the instructions will list what to expect. Be sure also to wriggle it around in the outlet a bit - a loose connection or worn-out outlet could test OK but have an intermittent connection (this was the case in my home when it was newly built - the lazy electrician used this little crimp ring on the ground leads, and in about a third of the outlets it was not crimped tightly enough. The tester showed it as "good" until sideways pressure was applied causing the outlet to shift in its box, then the ground cut out).

Have you had any trouble with any other electronics? It's conceivable that the power entering your house is suffering brownouts or overvoltage (this can happen if the transformer at the street has a problem or the grounding block at your electric panel is defective). If you have a reasonably high-end UPS they sometimes include software that will report your line voltages and any under/over voltage conditions.

Have you noticed any excess of static electricity in your house? It's possible the machine could be getting zapped that way. They have protection against fairly high discharges, but if your bedroom has, for example, deep-pile polyester carpeting and you sleep in flannel PJs in satin sheets you could work up a zap that might overwhelm the protection circuitry (I'll refrain from commenting on the taste of such a getup ).

Note that a common surge suppressor will not help at all against either of these two hypotheses. A good UPS will insulate you from problems with the wall socket, but that is an expensive way to go. Nothing on that end will help static discharge (though there are things that can be done to mitigate it if you're fond of your flannel and satin. )

Good luck, and I hope it's something you find soon!

[lvwildcat]

I have an S7 Elite(2 years). Ever since the first night I'd wake up and find that my machine shut off by itself sometimes several times a night. My DME sent it to Resmed;their loaner worked perfectly for 2 months. Resmed couldn't find anything wrong with mine. 3rd night after getting mine back the same thing happened over and over. Sent back to Resmed again. This time had a loaner for 4 months-worked perfectly. My DME called me the other day. Resmed could not reproduce the problem that I've been having. The only person with a brain at my DME(thanks,Sandy) spoke to her supervisor and they decided to let me keep the loaner in a trade for my unreliable machine. Still no issues;but I did buy a backup machine a couple of weeks ago...just in case!