Could a CPAP machine help someone with "mild" apnea? Is it worth trying?

[Sanfrantaco221]

I'm almost 30 now and since high school I've really felt like crap for pretty much my entire adult life.
- I wake up and I never feel rested, I wake up with a headache and dizzy pretty much daily.
- Worst of all I have chronic fatigue, even opening my eyes on most days is a challenge
- Severe short term memory problems, trouble focusing and concentrating

Two years ago I had a sleep apnea test done in a hospital. The doctor I saw afterwards said there were some stops, edit* result said 7.3 an hour and my oxygen level dropped a few times, but nothing to be officially diagnosed with as "sleep apnea" and the doctor said that they did not think this was the cause of my problems. She described my apnea as "mild". I told her at the time I really wanted to try a CPAP machine anyways, even if it is just mild, because I felt so crappy but she said she can't recommend it, and she wouldn't officially diagnose it in my case.

A few months later after an MRI scan I get diagnosed with something called Chiari Malformation Type I, and there was severe blockage in CSF flow. I had decompressive surgery done to relieve this, thinking it would solve a lot of my issues.

The surgery did help some of my issues, such as my tinnitus has almost but all gone away, and headaches that were specific to me straining my neck and head which I've had for a long time also got better but my chronic fatigue is still a problem and still ruining my life.

At this point I am very desperate. I have tried so many tests, medicines, even had a major surgery done etc. I also have read that people with Chiari are more likely to have Sleep Apnea.

Is it worth, in you guys opinion, someone like me who has all the symptoms of someone with sleep apnea to just go out and buy an APAP machine and give it a try? Is the severeness of the apnea directly connected to the symptoms? Could someone like me who only suffers a few stops per hour still be waking up fatigued and feeling like crap just like someone who suffers many more?

I don't want to just throw my money away but if there's a chance that this could help me then I really want to give it a chance. And to be honest it would probably be cheaper to just buy an APAP machine and see how it works for me than to go through the difficulty of getting another test done and all that stuff.

I guess mostly I'm just curious about whether or not the severeness of the apnea constitutes the severness of the symptoms. I know the more you stop breathing the higher risk of death you have, but could someone with low or mild apnea feel just as crappy as someone with very severe apnea?

Thanks!


Edit*
I grabbed my old sleep study results just give a more accurate representation

Hypopneas 7.3/hour 59 total events
O. apneas 4 event total
M. apneas 1 event total

521 minutes were spent below 95%
42 minutes were spent below 90%
Average 91.6
Lowest 87.0

Maximum Heart Rate 107.0

I'm not really sure what any of that means heh.

[Arlene1963]

Is it worth, in you guys opinion, someone like me who has all the symptoms of someone with sleep apnea to just go out and buy an APAP machine and give it a try? Is the severeness of the apnea directly connected to the symptoms? Could someone like me who only suffers a few stops per hour still be waking up fatigued and feeling like crap just like someone who suffers many more?

(snip)
And to be honest it would probably be cheaper to just buy an APAP machine and see how it works for me than to go through the difficulty of getting another test done and all that stuff.

Hi there Sanfrantaco221,

Some people report having severe symptoms with mild apnea, and others feel prefectly fine and have very few symptoms with moderate or very severe sleep apnea, it seems to vary quite a bit between individuals.

You mention that you are considering self treating your mild apnea to see if it will alleviate some of your symptoms and I think that it a great idea. Why not give it a try and see if it helps, you have nothing to lose.

To me your average sleep oxygen saturation of 91.6% is somewhat on the low side for someone of your age (29), and also 42 minutes spent below 90% a bit on the long side. A low of 87% is not scarily low, but it also depends how long you spent at that level which is not clear from the data provided. Anyway, for many of us optimal treatment with XPAP helps improve overnight oxygen saturation levels.

There are several members on this forum who sell excellent used machines if you don't want to buy a brand new one. Also, depending on where you are located you will very often need a prescription to buy a machine and you don't have a prescription.( I'm not sure what the requirement is if you buy a machine on Amazon ... maybe others here can comment.)

It is vital to buy a data capable machine so that you can download the data to determine how well treatment is working and how to improve and monitor your own treatment. The Resmed Airsense 10 Autoset (also the For Her model) is an excellent example of such a machine. Please don't buy any old machine but ask here before purchasing.

Finding the right mask is very important, so ask questions and read up as much as you can here on the forum.

If you are planning to self treat this forum will be here for you, there are many who can help and don't be shy.

Wishing you all the best!

[rcobourn]

If it has been two years, and you have medical insurance, your insurance would probably cover a new sleep study. Get your new study done at a specialist, not a hospital. You were borderline, so you have a decent chance of getting a diagnosis next time. If that fails, go the used equipment route.

[Julie]

As things are now, I would not bother without a new study, but try focusing on other possible problems, such as your CF, but - if you usually sleep on your back, which provokes apneas, do whatever you can to not do it (a stuffed backpk for a while can keep you from flipping while asleep) and see if it helps after a few (not just one) nights. You may need (or feel better with) a machine in the end, but without a proper study may also waste your money when other things (that won't get addressed) may be the problem. Arnold Chiari's can be problems and you're lucky they were able to deal with yours - too often they can't touch them.

I know you're frustrated, but throwing money and attention at the wrong thing won't help.

[blacknebula]

It might be worth a try to find a rental or cheap used machine and give it a try.

My AHI was 8.7 at my sleep study, which is also well within the mild range. However, I was only spending 4% of my time in REM sleep (as opposed to around 20% being normal) and my oxygen saturation was dipping pretty badly too although I don't remember the exact number. I initially rented a machine to see if would help, and after 4 days I was feeling significantly better. After a couple of weeks I would have re-mortgaged my house if necessary to pay for the machine had my insurance not covered it (they did ) It has been that life altering for me! So having 'mild' OSA does not mean treatment cannot make a huge difference.

[Pugsy]

Where are you located? USA or other parts of the world?

If in the USA you most likely can't just go and rent a machine without a doctor's order. No RX...no machine period.
If outside the USA...depending on where sometimes people can rent/buy machines without a RX.
Masks also require a RX here in the USA.

BUT....as with anything there are ways around the RX requirement for both machine and mask to self treat if you want to go that route.

Self diagnosing and self treating can be done but it takes some education and work and of course some money out of pocket.
I can help with the mask issue (I have some masks that were donated that are either new or minimally used)..and there ware ways of getting a machine that will give you the data you will need to self treat.

All depends on how much work you want to put forth in learning about self treating and if you have some money you could spend out of pocket. It's not that hard to learn.

Or you can go the whole doctor/insurance/DME route...and bear in mind that if you have a large deductible on your insurance plan the out of pocket expenses would likely be significant.
And that's if a new study might give you more than a mild diagnosis.

Up to you how you want to proceed....if you want to try the self treating route...we can help.
If you want to go through regular channels...we can still help.

[D.H.]

Your SA is not "mild," at least not according to your symptoms. CPAP is certainly worth a try! Unlike surgery, you can simply discontinue use if there's an issue (you can't easily reverse surgery).

Furthermore, we know that Sleep Apnea is bad, that more incidents are worse than fewer, that longer incidents are worse that shorter ones, and that blood oxygen below 90% is bad (the lower the worse). What is really not known is how much worse any of those things are.

[Sanfrantaco221]

Thanks for the responses everyone.

Unfortunately I do live in USA and everywhere I have looked for a "rental" has needed a prescription.

https://www.amazon.com/Apex-Medical-XT- ... 0788V5XPQ/

Is something like this a good place to start? It says it can record data and it seems to be on the cheaper side, and most importantly I can seemingly (not sure why?) get it without a prescription.

Honestly it would probably be cheaper to give a machine like this a try and then sell it back used than to go through my really bad insurance.

Do you guys think that's a good machine on the cheaper side to give it a try, and is it capable of storing all the data I need?

I suppose I need to find a mask. I definitely at least breathe through my mouth a little bit when I sleep (doesn't everybody?) so just based off of what I am reading is a full face mask one I should I try out with? I suppose finding the right size and a comfortable one might be a challenge. Thanks!

[Pugsy]

Don't go with the Apex....there's no easily available software for you to use to monitor your therapy.

Respironics DreamStation Auto CPap...or ResMed AirSense 10 AutoSet would be what I would recommend.

The DreamStation will be cheaper and it will give you the available data you will want...and software is free and easy to use.
https://sleep.tnet.com/equipment
Make sure it is model DSX500xxx
The 500 is the important part.

You can find masks on Amazon.

Do you normally breathe through your nose just fine?
Is any nasal congestion you might get random?

[caynana]

Here's a link for a new airsense10 machine for $689 on Amazon that doesn't require a prescription.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B079J ... HEAE&psc=1

Comes with carrying case and heated hose. My insurance covered mine but they billed the insurance $2700. Yikes!

I bought a Dreamwear nasal cushion mask on Amazon that I really like as I couldn't get a good seal with the Resmed F20 full face mask and the P10 nasal pillows (that were my first choice when I first started CPAP therapy) ended up being too drying even with increased humidity. I'm also a mouth breather but the Dreamwear is the most comfortable mask I've found and I just wear a chin strap under it to prevent mouth leaks. Having the air hose on top is a nice feature and makes turning from side to side easier for me. I've attached 2 Amazon links below for the Dreamwear with cushions. The second one is $11 more for the same mask but it's sold by Amazon prime and they let you return anything within 30 days so it might be worth the extra money if you should need to return it. Independent vendors on Amazon won't accept returns of used CPAP equipment.

Note that you can purchase the mask with cushions which are like a sling under your nostrils (which is the one I use and which I've included links for), or you can buy it with the gel pillows which are "prongs" that go into your nostrils. The cushions and the pillows will both fit the same frame so if you don't like the cushion, you can just purchase a pillow later if you want to try that, and it will fit the same frame. The mask in the link below comes with 3 cushions in small, med, & large with a medium frame. It's nice to have 3 sizes of cushions to choose from until you find the one that works best for you. Good luck!

https://www.amazon.com/Phillips-Dreamwe ... +cpap+mask

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01G0 ... ARFI&psc=1

[D.H.]

Here's me review of the DreamStation Auto CPAP; the good and the bad.


I have a Phillips Respironics Dream Station Auto CPAP. It’s my fourth machine since 1999; the others were all “bricks.”


Advantages:
• Automatic means that it will raise the pressure as needed when it senses distress. I think I feel more refreshed than before.
• Good statistics are generated, so you can see how you slept, and make adjustments as needed. In addition, stats are good for your doctor to see how you are doing.
• Machine is very quiet.
• Heated hose is very good, never had rainout despite full setting on humidity.
• Automatic altitude adjustment (good for travel).
• Leak compensation.
• Auto/on and auto/off can be activated and deactivated separately.
• Humidifier is fully integrated, but detachable. It can be replaced/repaired independently of the main unit. It can also be left behind to save space (if you can live without the humidification).
• Humidifier chamber is wide open on top, making it easy to fill, empty, and clean. The unit is sealed when the door over the chamber is closed.
• Puts out the prescribed pressure more precisely than my old machine (yes, I verified this).


Disadvantages:
• Machine is a bit larger than the major competing machine.
• Sometimes, there is a burning smell, especially after a potty break. I’m pretty sure it’s harmless.
• Frequently, the water does not last the whole night. I generally wake up at least once overnight, so I refill it at that time. This might not work for everybody.
• The humidifier door was not closing properly after about eighteen months. The DME replaced the humidifier at no cost to me. There was a viable workaround in the meanwhile, so it was not an emergency.
• Some have complained about the brightness of the display when you turn it off and back on, such as for a potty break. I don’t find this a problem. In fact, I use the light to reattach my mask to the hose.
• The “full” line on the water tank is hard to see.
• The machine is somewhat noisier when used without the humidifier attached.
• The power cord has a proprietary signal, so you cannot use a different cord, even if the voltage, wattage, amperage, and fitting are all identical. This means that if you need a replacement cord (or a spare cord), you have to get the cord specific to Dream Stations. If you want to use a battery (such as for camping and electrical outages), you have to buy an $80 proprietary device to generate this signal.