Groundhog Day :-(

[MaxINTJ]

Same thing happens every day.

I have been getting smooth breathing all night with the Amara View and no leaks.

I have been going to bed at the same time every night.

I have been waking up between 1 and 2 hours early every morning, at which point I have to take off the the mask. My choices then are to get up way too early or go back to sleep without the mask.

Either way I get up feeling like crap and by that night I am so tired (even after all the coffee I drink during the day) that I fall asleep in a minute or two - just to repeat the exact same thing the next day.

I'm not entirely sure if the mask is waking me up, or if my sore neck and back are waking me up. No matter the cause, I cannot get comfortable enough with the mask on to go back to sleep.


I do know the biggest problem with getting comfortable with the mask on is the stupid front mount hose. The hose is always getting in the way and always pulling on the mask. The second biggest problem is the stupid front mount hose making the mask stick out 6" so my pillows have to be too high to have any kind of face down position.

[esel]

try a massage bead that has a hole in it to rest the head when laying on the belly.

[AMESS]

Max: Same problem. Good numbers--feel bad. Lots of congestion--and that can make you real tired. Have gotten some cocortisone nasal spray from allergist--will try that. Other wise I cannot live like this. I get up exhausted even though I have had some decent sleep. Cannot get through the day. By night its wearing off in time for me to go to bed. I feel like I have been on an all night jet flight. Will be seeing doc in NOV. First thing I will bring up.

[Julie]

Look at Pappillow.com for specially contoured (with cutouts for mask) pillows to use.

[LSAT]

Same thing happens every day.

I have been getting smooth breathing all night with the Amara View and no leaks.

I have been going to bed at the same time every night.

I have been waking up between 1 and 2 hours early every morning, at which point I have to take off the the mask. My choices then are to get up way too early or go back to sleep without the mask.

Either way I get up feeling like crap and by that night I am so tired (even after all the coffee I drink during the day) that I fall asleep in a minute or two - just to repeat the exact same thing the next day.

I'm not entirely sure if the mask is waking me up, or if my sore neck and back are waking me up. No matter the cause, I cannot get comfortable enough with the mask on to go back to sleep.


I do know the biggest problem with getting comfortable with the mask on is the stupid front mount hose. The hose is always getting in the way and always pulling on the mask. The second biggest problem is the stupid front mount hose making the mask stick out 6" so my pillows have to be too high to have any kind of face down position.

Don't face down positions with high pillows raise hovoc with your back? Have you tried the buckwheat hull pillow (CPAPfit)? You can depress an area for the face and mask. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qHnXj4X-fQ

[MaxINTJ]

Look at Pappillow.com for specially contoured (with cutouts for mask) pillows to use.

I have one of those - memory foam brick. I don't sleep with my arms at my sides. Usually one or both arms are under or around the pillows, and I sure as heck don't stay in one position all night.

Yes, if I slept like a mannequin with my arms at my side and never moved from side sleeping, it would probably work.

[MaxINTJ]

Don't face down positions with high pillows raise hovoc with your back? Have you tried the buckwheat hull pillow (CPAPfit)? You can depress an area for the face and mask. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qHnXj4X-fQ

It does, hence my statement:

"I'm not entirely sure if the mask is waking me up, or if my sore neck and back are waking me up"

Back is sore all day and neck is stiff all day. I'm just waiting for another muscle spasm or for a disk to give out.

And the type of pillow has no effect on the height needed to clear the mattress in any kind of face down position.

I would really like to know if the engineers who design these masks actually have to wear them. I think if they did, there would be very few masks with front mount hoses - most would be top mount.

[WearyOne]

Max, I've been on xpap for over 10 years. I still get up each morning feeling horrible even though my numbers are excellent. My mask leaks a lot some nights, hardly any other nights. Obviously there are other things going on with me that have nothing to do with straight apeas/hypopnias. UARS? Maybe. Probably. But I don't think that's the only thing as I also have fibromyalgia and neck problems and lumbar problems. A couple of my meds can also mess with sleep, but I have to take them. And there could be other sleep-related things going on as well that the doc and I haven't yet figured out.

I much prefer the front-mounted hose on my mask. Not stupid for me. With my neck problems, if my sleeping position made it worse, I would do everything in my power to change my sleeping position. Period. Even if that meant my sleep was worse than it is now until my body got used to the new position. (And yes, as bad as my sleep is now, I know it could be worse.) I would find someone to help with suggestions on retraining my body to sleep differently if I couldn't figure it out myself.

Try liners for your mask if leaking is an issue. Just try them. What have you got to lose, as they're not that expensive. They don't work for me, but they work wonders for my husband (and he can't STAND anything that adds heat, so I know these don't).

Lay off any caffeine for at least eight hours before you go to bed...or so I've read. I don't drink coffee, but I do drink diet soda that has caffeine. Caffeine can mess with your sleep architecture even if it doesn't keep you from going to sleep initially.

Living with sleep that's not very restorative is where I am now and where I have been for a very long time. I make changes in my routine to accommodate, and that works most of the time. I still function very well. I run my own successful home-based business (for 21 years). I have a lot of fun in life with hobbies and a little volunteer work at church. I pray a lot. Yeah, it sucks feeling a lot worse in the morning, every morning, than when I went to bed. But I refuse to put my life in a depressive hold because of it. I did that for a quite a while...not good.

Hopefully we'll both figure out a way to better sleep, but until then don't let it be the soul focus of your life. I've been there and don't recommend it.

[MaxINTJ]

I much prefer the front-mounted hose on my mask. Not stupid for me.

My issue with front mounted hoses is that it DOES interfere in with the way *some* people sleep, whereas a top mounted hose doesn't interfere with anyone's sleep position unless they sleep standing on their head.

Try liners for your mask if leaking is an issue. Just try them. What have you got to lose, as they're not that expensive. They don't work for me, but they work wonders for my husband (and he can't STAND anything that adds heat, so I know these don't).

My leaks have been 0.00 - 0.5% lately. Definitely not a problem.

Lay off any caffeine for at least eight hours before you go to bed...or so I've read. I don't drink coffee, but I do drink diet soda that has caffeine. Caffeine can mess with your sleep architecture even if it doesn't keep you from going to sleep initially.

I did that as part of my CBT-I - it made no difference. Also, as soon as I take the mask off I can get in a comfortable position and be back asleep in about 30 seconds.

Living with sleep that's not very restorative is where I am now and where I have been for a very long time. I make changes in my routine to accommodate, and that works most of the time. I still function very well. I run my own successful home-based business (for 21 years). I have a lot of fun in life with hobbies and a little volunteer work at church. I pray a lot. Yeah, it sucks feeling a lot worse in the morning, every morning, than when I went to bed. But I refuse to put my life in a depressive hold because of it. I did that for a quite a while...not good.

Hopefully we'll both figure out a way to better sleep, but until then don't let it be the soul focus of your life. I've been there and don't recommend it.

I would love to have the energy to have hobbies. I would love to be in a situation where I could get some exercise. I work full time with a 45-50 minute drive each way, so by the time my 10 hour day is done, I'm also done.

We have corporate meetings coming up next month and I have to fly there. They will be all day meetings, and I don't have any idea how I am going to stay awake.

[WearyOne]

I would love to have the energy to have hobbies. I would love to be in a situation where I could get some exercise. I work full time with a 45-50 minute drive each way, so by the time my 10 hour day is done, I'm also done.

We have corporate meetings coming up next month and I have to fly there. They will be all day meetings, and I don't have any idea how I am going to stay awake.

I don't have the energy either, I just do it. And I found as I forced myself to get involved, my attitude changed which allowed me to stay involved even with low energy. Now I will say when I'm in a fibro flare that I have to slow down, but other than that I just push through low energy. I also exercise 15 to 30 minutes a day at home. I know you've probably already thought of this, but any way you could take a quick walk at lunch or something?

I would have a problem saying awake in meetings too. Although running a business is extremely time-consuming, because I do it from home that allows me so much flexibility. I can schedule my work day, to a certain extent, around my nightly sleep schedule, or take naps during the day if I just can't stay awake (and then work at night). I know not everyone can quit a full-time job and start a business at home, but that could be something to look into to help deal with this mess if nothing else is working. Don't know if that would even be an option for you, but it might be something you could look into.

For those meetings...wish I had some helpful advice. Meetings can put people to sleep even if they aren't sleep-deprived beforehand, so I sure don't envy you.

[nanwilson]

Max, I don't get it... you say you work long hours, have a long commute time, yet you have time to come on here and gripe and complain all the time. Perhaps if you worked on your attitude of "nothing works" you would be able to get it right and still have plenty of time to enjoy family life. Smile once in awhile, have a better outlook, do a kind act for one person each day, your attitude will soon change for the better and your therapy will go accordingly. Remember the old saying "a happy wife equals a happy life" well, just change wife to yourself and you will change your whole outlook. It took all of us time to get our therapy right, but we didn't gripe about it constantly. If one thing didn't work, you tried something else and eventually things just went in the right direction... good therapy, good sleep, equals a great life.
Good luck

[WearyOne]

Max, I don't get it... you say you work long hours, have a long commute time, yet you have time to come on here and gripe and complain all the time. Perhaps if you worked on your attitude of "nothing works" you would be able to get it right and still have plenty of time to enjoy family life. Smile once in awhile, have a better outlook, do a kind act for one person each day, your attitude will soon change for the better and your therapy will go accordingly. Remember the old saying "a happy wife equals a happy life" well, just change wife to yourself and you will change your whole outlook. It took all of us time to get our therapy right, but we didn't gripe about it constantly. If one thing didn't work, you tried something else and eventually things just went in the right direction... good therapy, good sleep, equals a great life.
Good luck

I agree 100 percent that attitude plays a huge part in all of this; at least it has with me. If something doesn't work, change it. If it can't be changed--or the person keeps saying it can't be changed--don't continually gripe about it.

But as you know, not everyone ends up with good sleep even if the therapy is doing its job at maximum efficiency. There are a lot of other things that can mess with sleep. And sometimes the whole answer is never found for some people...which I may be one of those. But I don't go around complaining about it all the time either. I've learned to live with it and still have a wonderful life. Hopefully one day I will figure it out, but until then I'm not putting my life on hold.

I can guess at how miserable Max is, but I don't truly know. But if I was as miserable as he sounds like he is, I would really work harder at the stomach sleeping thing as that, to me, appears to be the center of the problem. Neck pain, back pain, and trouble finding a good mask all seem to circle around the stomach sleeping. He says he can't change it. I question whether it's truly a "can't" or more of it it being really difficult and causing even worse sleep as the body tries to adjust and he doesn't want to go through that phase. I don't know the true answer. To me it looks like he's going to have to make some changes he may not want to make (or says he can't make), or learn to live with things the way they are.

[MaxINTJ]

I can guess at how miserable Max is, but I don't truly know. But if I was as miserable as he sounds like he is, I would really work harder at the stomach sleeping thing as that, to me, appears to be the center of the problem. Neck pain, back pain, and trouble finding a good mask all seem to circle around the stomach sleeping. He says he can't change it. I question whether it's truly a "can't" or more of it it being really difficult and causing even worse sleep as the body tries to adjust and he doesn't want to go through that phase. I don't know the true answer. To me it looks like he's going to have to make some changes he may not want to make (or says he can't make), or learn to live with things the way they are.

I blew out a lumbar disk over 15 years ago. I finally got it treated by a chiropractor/physical therapist/holistic doctor. During the treatment and then after, sleeping on a mattress caused a lot of pain. I started sleeping on the floor and it helped, so I built a raised, solid platform to sleep on.

Back sleeping on a hard surface is generally considered bad - just like front sleeping on a soft surface. Years and years of pain and SDB have converted me to a solid surface stomach sleeper.

I have a mask that works pretty well for my sleep positions - but nothing has worked to close my mouth.

I also have a mask that treats my SDB but screws up my neck and back. I have a VERY hard time sleeping on my back, and usually if I end up there, I wake up because my back starts to ache. Longer term - if I forced back sleeping - would probably really screw up my back again.

I do not have a problem with claustrophobia either. I wake up stiff and cannot move into a comfortable position with 6" of plastic hanging off my face, so I take it off.

I do not understand the repeated advice to give up coffee - I don't have insomnia. All giving up coffee would do is guarantee I would fall asleep at work or on the drive. I even carry No-Doze with me in case I miss a cup of coffee.

I need restful sleep and to be pain free, and I have not found a way to get both, in fact, it's pretty much the opposite

[AMESS]

Look up congestion and CPAP. Its the biggest side effect. If you have a cold-the flu etc are you tired? The answer is yes. Congestion is congestion. All the same.

[MaxINTJ]

Look up congestion and CPAP. Its the biggest side effect. If you have a cold-the flu etc are you tired? The answer is yes. Congestion is congestion. All the same.

LOL, that's one side effect I don't have...