Adding Humidifier Capacity via an External Chamber

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
JDS74
Posts: 3397
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:57 pm
Location: South Carolina

Adding Humidifier Capacity via an External Chamber

Post by JDS74 » Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:38 am

Experiment in the use of chained heated humidifiers.

I measured the amount of water that I used in an 8 hour period on my PRS1 960 ASV cpap with heated humidifier to find the reason for my dry mouth in the morning. Careful measurements of the usage indicated that about 70 mL of water per hour was used overnight and the capacity of the chamber was only 325 mL. So, my humidifier was running dry about 5 hours in and leaving me with completely dry air from a minimum of 2 hours to a maximum of 4 hours depending on how long I slept that night. That was enough time to make my mouth feel like the Sahara desert.

I spoke to a Philips-Respironics representative about the possibility that they made a larger capacity chamber and was advised that no such chamber was available for any of the series 50 or 60 model machines.

So, following the lead of AlabamaAl in his quest to retain a water supply independent of how long he slept or how high he set the humidifier Link to his Post, I decided to once again try the daisy chain a F-P HC-150 heated humidifier to the PRS1 heated humidifier. That completely solved the water capacity problem but left an additional problem to solve. Connecting and external device like the HC-150 in the air circuit immediately disabled the Heated Hose from Respironics – huge rainout was the result. To solve this, three approaches looked like they might do. First, insulate like crazy around both the cpap hose and the short hose from the mask to the hose; second, find a way to link the electrical circuit between the heated humidifier and the heated hose; and three get an external heated hose.

The insulation path didn’t work very well and had the added downside of making the hose very stiff and not easy for me when I rolled around at night. I still haven’t solved the “extension cord” problem but have purchased parts that might do. So, I purchased a Hybernite Heated Hose system and got all configured.

My configuration has the short HC-150 hookup hose running from the PR Heated Humidifier to the HC-150 chamber, the HC-325 water chamber. Then the Hybernite cpap hose was connected to the HC-325 outlet and to my mask. The short hose on the mask continued to be insulated.

Because I am using supplemental oxygen, I connected the O2 feed from the concentrator to the inlet of the HC-150 to get the benefit of adding humidity to the dry O2 feed.

Altogether, the two chambers hold 775 mL of water, more than double the standard PR chamber. As you can see from the data below, the option of using the HC-150 didn't supply enough capacity to meet my requirements.

Here is the setup.
Image

Over a period of time, I tracked water usage and here are the results. I’m assuming that the small variability of water used per hour is related to relative humidity variations day to day. Notice that the total usage always exceeded the capacity or either chamber.

Image

Because this link-up changes the total hose air volume from the PR cpap to the mask, I paid careful attention to the nightly statistics to see if anything changed in the number of events, kinds of events, and changes in pressure. I could detect no changes. I believe the net effect must be similar to that of using an 8 foot hose instead of the standard 6 foot hose.

_________________
Mask: Oracle HC452 Oral CPAP Mask
Humidifier: DreamStation Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: EverFlo Q 3.0 Liters O2 PR DSX900 ASV
Last edited by JDS74 on Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Oracle 452 Lessons Learned Updated
DSX900 AutoSV with HC150 extra humidifier and Hibernite heated hose
Settings: EPAP Min-10.0, EPAP Max-17, PS Min-3, PS Max-10, Max Pressure-20, Rate-Auto, Biflex-1.
Sleepyhead and Encore Pro 2.21.

User avatar
Sir NoddinOff
Posts: 4190
Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 5:30 pm
Location: California

Re: Adding Humidifier Capacity via an External Chamber

Post by Sir NoddinOff » Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:12 pm

Sounds like you may have found something that works, JDS. Last year, when I was using 'Classic Mode' humidification on my PR 960, I just got used to adding distilled water to my tank in the middle of the night when I got up to pee. I personally didn't have much problem falling back asleep... I don't remember if you've discussed this before on the forum, tho I can understand why it might not work for you. If I recall correctly, you are using a bedroom humidifier during the night. I do happen to remember that I suggested Orajel Dry Mouth Moisturizer a few weeks ago, did you try that out?

Sorry I don't have much to input on dual humidifiers but thanks for the update on your tests.

_________________
Mask: AirFit™ F10 Full Face Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Sleepyhead software v.0.9.8.1 Open GL and Encore Pro v2.2.
I like my ResMed AirFit F10 FFM - reasonably low leaks for my ASV therapy. I'm currently using a PR S1 AutoSV 960P Advanced. I also keep a ResMed S9 Adapt as backup. I use a heated Hibernite hose. Still rockin' with Win 7 by using GWX to stop Win 10.

SewTired
Posts: 1737
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:33 am
Location: Minneapolis area

Re: Adding Humidifier Capacity via an External Chamber

Post by SewTired » Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:22 pm

I've very interested in this as my brother currently drains his humidifier nightly and will clearly need larger capacity in the winter. Rainout is not a problem. Thanks for experimenting! I'll be buying that other humidifier closer to winter.

_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Sleepyhead
Diabetes 2, RLS & bradycardia
Airsense For Her; Settings: range 8-12, Airfit P10 (M)

JDS74
Posts: 3397
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:57 pm
Location: South Carolina

Re: Adding Humidifier Capacity via an External Chamber

Post by JDS74 » Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:30 pm

Sir NoddinOff wrote:Sounds like you may have found something that works, JDS. Last year, when I was using 'Classic Mode' humidification on my PR 960, I just got used to adding distilled water to my tank in the middle of the night when I got up to pee. I personally didn't have much problem falling back asleep... I don't remember if you've discussed this before on the forum, tho I can understand why it might not work for you. If I recall correctly, you are using a bedroom humidifier during the night. I do happen to remember that I suggested Orajel Dry Mouth Moisturizer a few weeks ago, did you try that out?

Sorry I don't have much to input on dual humidifiers but thanks for the update on your tests.
I did try the room humidifier for a while but that didn't work well for me. At the levels of humidity that would be needed, I got concerned with damage to the house from excess moisture. I seem to remember from somewhere that room humidity shouldn't get above some number less than 50% relative humidity and that wasn't going to be enough. I got off on the tangent of getting the water supply enough to last the whole night so that is where my efforts went. The post from AlabamaAl was the trigger that got me going again. No, I didn't try Orajel. By that time I essentially had this scheme and hardware worked out so it didn't seem worth the effort to divert to a different solution. I spent the time fiddling with the humidity settings on the HC-150 so I got enough without it feeling like the inside of a sauna.

_________________
Mask: Oracle HC452 Oral CPAP Mask
Humidifier: DreamStation Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: EverFlo Q 3.0 Liters O2 PR DSX900 ASV
Oracle 452 Lessons Learned Updated
DSX900 AutoSV with HC150 extra humidifier and Hibernite heated hose
Settings: EPAP Min-10.0, EPAP Max-17, PS Min-3, PS Max-10, Max Pressure-20, Rate-Auto, Biflex-1.
Sleepyhead and Encore Pro 2.21.

JDS74
Posts: 3397
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:57 pm
Location: South Carolina

Re: Adding Humidifier Capacity via an External Chamber

Post by JDS74 » Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:32 pm

SewTired wrote:I've very interested in this as my brother currently drains his humidifier nightly and will clearly need larger capacity in the winter. Rainout is not a problem. Thanks for experimenting! I'll be buying that other humidifier closer to winter.
If your brother is a mouth breather to any significant extent, don't wait to fall to implement.

_________________
Mask: Oracle HC452 Oral CPAP Mask
Humidifier: DreamStation Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: EverFlo Q 3.0 Liters O2 PR DSX900 ASV
Oracle 452 Lessons Learned Updated
DSX900 AutoSV with HC150 extra humidifier and Hibernite heated hose
Settings: EPAP Min-10.0, EPAP Max-17, PS Min-3, PS Max-10, Max Pressure-20, Rate-Auto, Biflex-1.
Sleepyhead and Encore Pro 2.21.

User avatar
AlabamaAl
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:21 am

Re: Adding Humidifier Capacity via an External Chamber

Post by AlabamaAl » Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:29 am

Please post some photos of your set up. You could be onto something good...

_________________
Mask: Mirage Quattro™ Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Sleepyhead software. Pressure 15 low, 20 high

JDS74
Posts: 3397
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:57 pm
Location: South Carolina

Re: Adding Humidifier Capacity via an External Chamber

Post by JDS74 » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:24 am

AlabamaAl wrote:Please post some photos of your set up. You could be onto something good...
Sure, I edited the original post to include the images.

_________________
Mask: Oracle HC452 Oral CPAP Mask
Humidifier: DreamStation Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: EverFlo Q 3.0 Liters O2 PR DSX900 ASV
Last edited by JDS74 on Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Oracle 452 Lessons Learned Updated
DSX900 AutoSV with HC150 extra humidifier and Hibernite heated hose
Settings: EPAP Min-10.0, EPAP Max-17, PS Min-3, PS Max-10, Max Pressure-20, Rate-Auto, Biflex-1.
Sleepyhead and Encore Pro 2.21.

User avatar
AlabamaAl
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:21 am

Re: Adding Humidifier Capacity via an External Chamber

Post by AlabamaAl » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:13 am

Interesting. I wonder if one could fabricate an extension cord to allow the use of the heated hose option with that setup. It should only take a male and female plug, and some wire.....

Thanks for posting the photos, It makes the design much easier to understand.

Al

_________________
Mask: Mirage Quattro™ Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Sleepyhead software. Pressure 15 low, 20 high

JDS74
Posts: 3397
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:57 pm
Location: South Carolina

Re: Adding Humidifier Capacity via an External Chamber

Post by JDS74 » Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:15 pm

My thought exactly.
I stopped at Fry's and tried out connector parts but haven't started fabrication yet.

What fits the female pins on one end is 0.1 inch crimp pin PLU# 2875784 from Pactech.
The other end seems to fit female jumper cables P/N 920-0020-01 from Schmartboard.
Should be easy to assemble after being really careful on what to connect to what.

_________________
Mask: Oracle HC452 Oral CPAP Mask
Humidifier: DreamStation Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: EverFlo Q 3.0 Liters O2 PR DSX900 ASV
Oracle 452 Lessons Learned Updated
DSX900 AutoSV with HC150 extra humidifier and Hibernite heated hose
Settings: EPAP Min-10.0, EPAP Max-17, PS Min-3, PS Max-10, Max Pressure-20, Rate-Auto, Biflex-1.
Sleepyhead and Encore Pro 2.21.

JDS74
Posts: 3397
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:57 pm
Location: South Carolina

Re: Adding Humidifier Capacity via an External Chamber

Post by JDS74 » Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:19 am

Here are the parts that might be useful in making an “extension cord” to connect from the Respironics heated humidifier to the Heated tube so that the Hybernite hose would not be needed.

These parts fit the real Respironics connections.

Shrink tubing to protect the connections:
Image

Jumper cables to insert around the male connections:
Image

Crimp pins to insert into the female end of the connections:
Image

It may be possible that the pins that come with the jumper cable kit, could be used to change gender in the Respironics connections and that the jumper cables alone would then do the job.

After the extension cable is fabricated, the Respironics Heated hose would be connected to the output port of the HC-150 humidifier tank and the cable used to connect the heated hose to the heated humidifier electrical connection.
That's my next experiment to see if that actually works.

_________________
Mask: Oracle HC452 Oral CPAP Mask
Humidifier: DreamStation Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: EverFlo Q 3.0 Liters O2 PR DSX900 ASV
Oracle 452 Lessons Learned Updated
DSX900 AutoSV with HC150 extra humidifier and Hibernite heated hose
Settings: EPAP Min-10.0, EPAP Max-17, PS Min-3, PS Max-10, Max Pressure-20, Rate-Auto, Biflex-1.
Sleepyhead and Encore Pro 2.21.

JDS74
Posts: 3397
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:57 pm
Location: South Carolina

Re: Adding Humidifier Capacity via an External Chamber

Post by JDS74 » Sun Nov 27, 2016 6:05 am

Bump

_________________
Mask: Oracle HC452 Oral CPAP Mask
Humidifier: DreamStation Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: EverFlo Q 3.0 Liters O2 PR DSX900 ASV
Oracle 452 Lessons Learned Updated
DSX900 AutoSV with HC150 extra humidifier and Hibernite heated hose
Settings: EPAP Min-10.0, EPAP Max-17, PS Min-3, PS Max-10, Max Pressure-20, Rate-Auto, Biflex-1.
Sleepyhead and Encore Pro 2.21.